2026 NEC Motions Commitee Report Released 🔥

[Fred B]

I have never seen such a failure, perhaps one DIY post on reddit where the charger was programmed for max ?

I have seen it. Cheap DIY installed EVSE sold by Amazon or Temu that allow the home owner to set the charge rates. The 40A rate not fast enough so just bump it up to the 48A rate because after all it has a 50A breaker, and then after 6hrs on charge the whole thing gets hot melting down the range plug. HO goes into big box and sees 2 50A receptacles, one 2 or 3 dollars less than the other, Which one do you think they are going to grab?
Seen one at a house that I went to for another reason, smelt hot wire and finally found one of the Cheap 120V EVSE chargers plugged in with a small gauge extension cord that the cord end had already melted down and was smoking.

Then you have these units being installed where total system load will cause and issue at the full rate, No one looking at the house loads prior to the install by the DIY/HO, the HO may ask an electrician, but more likely a GC or handyman to add a range plug in their garage. They won't have a clue as to load calculations (Or even care).
Untrained persons have no business playing with these units. How many hours or years of training have many of you gone through to become a qualified licensed electrician? And then just want to hand over the reins to the HO or DIY to do as they please?

I know you can't fix stupid, but should be allowed to regulate to protect others from stupid.
And for those that may ask who is harmed or risk of harm by a DIY/HO doing their own work and it fails? How about the first responders and firemen when the whole thing goes up in smoke, or property damage to a neighboring property when the garage becomes engulfed from an improperly installed EVSE or one that might have been OK when inspected (if it was) but the HO altered the settings.

If the EVSE was all that simple as suggested by some posts, Why so many threads posted here as to the confusion even by those who are electricians as to the varying nuances of 625 and what it means?

Seems we as a trade have such a hard time with regulating so that only "Qualified" persons are installing things. HVAC has no such problem prohibiting sale of equipment or restrict who can install equipment, so why don't or can't we as a trade? Is Electrical components so much less dangerous than HVAC?

 

[jim dungar]

The 40A rate not fast enough so just bump it up to the 48A rate because after all it has a 50A breaker, and then after 6hrs on charge the whole thing gets hot melting down the range plug. HO goes into big box and sees 2 50A receptacles, one 2 or 3 dollars less than the other, Which one do you think they are going to grab?
Seen one at a house that I went to for another reason, smelt hot wire and finally found one of the Cheap 120V EVSE chargers plugged in with a small gauge extension cord that the cord end had already melted down and was smoking.

Which of these two hazards would have been prevented by having a qualified person install the equipment. Looks we need regulations against the homeowner making adjustments after the installer has left or being allowed to use extensions cords.

There are settings my home thermostat has that are not accessible by me as a homeowner I have to contact a certified HVAC person even though I can purchase the stat. Maybe we need to pressure the manufacturers not the regulators. Require 'manufacturer qualification' to raise the charging rate above 40A.

 

[pipe_bender]

Seems we as a trade have such a hard time with regulating so that only "Qualified" persons are installing things.

I had a recent thread on here about a qualified 'factory authorized' installer working thru a dealership that installs AL SE cable (2 wire + bare) to a 14-50 receptacle, I just stumbled across the install doing some other work, customer was very confident it was wired correct, the work was included with the purchase of the EV. So I really don't have much faith in these 'qualified' and or 'certified' installers.

 

[VirutalElectrician]

But UL doesn’t test them “forever.” I’m not familiar with the test procedure, but my guess is that they are tested at full rated current until the temperature stabilizes. I doubt the test adequately reflects real-world, long-term conditions.
The effects of long-term operation at elevated temps and after dozens (maybe hundreds) of insertion cycles are never observed in the lab.

How are NEMA 15 and 20 amp receptacles tested? Why don't we see on-going issues with space heaters melting them? Yes, I know it happens, but it doesn't seem as chronic as it does with EVs.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

How are NEMA 15 and 20 amp receptacles tested? Why don't we see on-going issues with space heaters melting them? Yes, I know it happens, but it doesn't seem as chronic as it does with EVs.

The same standard and requirements apply. I have seen a lot more failures of the less than a dollar receptacles as compared to the more expensive "commercial" grade, yet both pass the same tests.

 

[VirutalElectrician]

There are settings my home thermostat has that are not accessible by me as a homeowner I have to contact a certified HVAC person even though I can purchase the stat. Maybe we need to pressure the manufacturers not the regulators. Require 'manufacturer qualification' to raise the charging rate above 40A.

Seems we as a trade have such a hard time with regulating so that only "Qualified" persons are installing things. HVAC has no such problem prohibiting sale of equipment or restrict who can install equipment, so why don't or can't we as a trade? Is Electrical components so much less dangerous than HVAC?

These settings aren't restricted by the "industry" they are restricted by the manufacturer - who made a complex integrated system. an HVAC system is a little more complex than an EV outlet....And HVAC systems typically also have EPA regulations they need to maintain which could be violated by changing some settings - then the manufacturer gets slapped with big fines.

All that being said - I told my HVAC guy when he installed the system in my new house, that if there were any dealer "passwords" on any of the settings when he left, he wouldn't get paid.

 

[VirutalElectrician]

The same standard and requirements apply. I have seen a lot more failures of the less than a dollar receptacles as compared to the more expensive "commercial" grade, yet both pass the same tests.

I'm sure - I shudder when I see those sub $1 receptacles at the home store - and people buying them. A new house has what, 50 receptacles? We can't spend $100 more on a decent receptacles per house? I find the better quality ones are faster for me to wire anyways, so it's just about a wash cost wise.

 

[jim dungar]

These settings aren't restricted by the "industry" they are restricted by the manufacturer - who made a complex integrated system. an HVAC system is a little more complex than an EV outlet....And HVAC systems typically also have EPA regulations they need to maintain which could be violated by changing some settings - then the manufacturer gets slapped with big fines.

The stat settings have nothing to do with HVAC function excepting "turning it on or off". The setting I particularly want is for my stat to be able to turn on my HVR.

This is why I said our industry needs to be pressuring the EVSE manufacturers not the NEC and UL.