208V 30A GFCI Breaker Trip

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Lbartowski

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This is a dedicated circuit about 85' to a coffee maker.

Change out the coffee maker, changed out the breaker, pulled in new wire. Still tripping randomly.

What's next? Would XHHW wire help with "leakage"? I actually disconnect the device from the branch wiring and capped the wires off. Still trips, so it's not the coffee maker. I'm at a loss.
 
Are the wires routed in conduit with any other circuit? If so, perhaps it could be picking up noise from another circuit and tripping.
Will the breaker hold if both of the circuit wires are disconnected? If it holds then disconnect one wire at a time and see if it will hold with just one wire connected.
 
Unless there is something really strange in that conduit, 85 feet should not be enough to cause sufficient leakage to trip a GFCI. I would expect considerably less than 1mA of leakage current expected because of capacitance and insulation leakage.

Right now you've replaced both the breaker and the wire in the conduit, and the circuit trips even with the load disconnected. This means an issue with something common between the existing setup and prior.

I am really grasping at straws, but some possibilities to consider:
1) A wiring fault which was re-created when you pulled new wire. For example a neutral connection to ground or to a different circuit. (If this is a 208/120V circuit and not a straight 208V circuit.) Or a connection to a hot of a different circuit on the same phase.
2) Some sort of local radio source which is tripping the GFCI by RFI.
3) An issue with the connection of the GFCI neutral that you've not considered because the load doesn't need the neutral.
4) A problem with the conduit such as a bad burr which damaged the old wire insulation and the new wire insulation in the same way.

-Jon
 
Lbartowski said:
This is a dedicated circuit about 85' to a coffee maker.

Change out the coffee maker, changed out the breaker, pulled in new wire. Still tripping randomly.

What's next? Would XHHW wire help with "leakage"? I actually disconnect the device from the branch wiring and capped the wires off. Still trips, so it's not the coffee maker. I'm at a loss.
Click to expand...

Have you checked if the GE, MBJ, and all GEC’s are all continuous/bonded together? Also, I would do an insulation resistance test if you suspect it’s the wire.
 
The circuit is piped to the electrical room in it's own conduit. At that point it passes through a junction box, but the wires are separate from any other wires in the j-box by 3 inches. We replaced the wire and it held all day...until it tripped at the end of the day. Which was an improvement from it tripping immediately.

I was hoping the manual recommended 30ma GFI protection, but it has no reference to GFCI protection.

I guess the right thing to do (in lieu of installing this equipment rated breaker I have with 30ma protection) would be try XHHW and see if that helps with "leakage".

It's a government property with antenna's which adds to the possibilities. But I'm not sure what the solution would be if the problem is the antenna's.
 
What does the manufacturer say about using a GFCI. It is very possible that the manufacturer has not kept up with requirements for GFCI protection, and the normal leakage of the coffee maker is sufficient to trip the GFCI.

-Jon
 
brantmacga said:
If this is a commercial kitchen, GFP isn’t an option.


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Click to expand...


I'm going to be honest and say stuff that others may not like:


Physics does not allow the use of 6ma GFCIs in large appliances, longer runs, or a combination of both. Capacitive and resistive leakage will in one way or another lead to tripping.
 
Lbartowski said:
The circuit is piped to the electrical room in it's own conduit. At that point it passes through a junction box, but the wires are separate from any other wires in the j-box by 3 inches. We replaced the wire and it held all day...until it tripped at the end of the day. Which was an improvement from it tripping immediately.

I was hoping the manual recommended 30ma GFI protection, but it has no reference to GFCI protection.

I guess the right thing to do (in lieu of installing this equipment rated breaker I have with 30ma protection) would be try XHHW and see if that helps with "leakage".

It's a government property with antenna's which adds to the possibilities. But I'm not sure what the solution would be if the problem is the antenna's.
Click to expand...
I have not read all the answers and suggestions given so please forgive me if this is a repeat question. Is the conduit metal or PVC?
 
Lbartowski said:
... We replaced the wire and it held all day...until it tripped at the end of the day. Which was an improvement from it tripping immediately.
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Have you tried turning the coffeemaker on and off to check whether that can cause the GFCI breaker to trip? Presumably they would be turning the coffeemaker off at the end of the day, which is when you mentioned it had tripped. Of course this could be just a coincidence.

Lbartowski said:
It's a government property with antenna's which adds to the possibilities. But I'm not sure what the solution would be if the problem is the antenna's.
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Using a ferrite ring around the conductors to act as a choke might reduce the effect of EMI that could be coming from the antennas.
Is it possible to ask the customer to key up a transmitter (if there are any) and check whether that will initiate a breaker trip?
 
mbrooke said:
I'm going to be honest and say stuff that others may not like:


Physics does not allow the use of 6ma GFCIs in large appliances, longer runs, or a combination of both. Capacitive and resistive leakage will in one way or another lead to tripping.
Click to expand...
Why we not going to like, unless we are on CMP that insists on using GFCI here?

The only thing making this require GFCI is (or should be) the fact it is cord and plug connected, though they have been adding specific appliances with a water line attached to them over the years even if direct wired and this one could still be coming.
 
kwired said:
Why we not going to like, unless we are on CMP that insists on using GFCI here?

The only thing making this require GFCI is (or should be) the fact it is cord and plug connected, though they have been adding specific appliances with a water line attached to them over the years even if direct wired and this one could still be coming.
Click to expand...
Does this mean if I hard wire it to the wall I could do away with the GFI breaker?
 
Lbartowski said:
Does this mean if I hard wire it to the wall I could do away with the GFI breaker?
Click to expand...
Most likely. If unit has instructions calling for GFCI then probably not.

Is it actually in a location where 210.8 would require GFCI? In restaurants, C stores and similar often beverage centers are not actually in the "kitchen" and might not need GFCI anyway. A sink within six feet could still trigger this though, but 210.8 A and B is about receptacle outlets in the mentioned locations and not about what the load is.
 
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