208V Tennis Court lighting

[tuckerch]

Hello everybody,
Recently at work, we lost a circuit that blew underground. The court has 6 gooseneck LED lights fed by two individual 208V circuits, with one circuit being down half of the lights stopped working. We called electrical contractors out and to resolve this issues, they capped the bad wires, upped the good circuit breaker to a 50A (originally 2 20A breakers fed it) and set a sub-panel being fed off the bottom of the contactor. In said sub panel, there are two 20A two pole breakers feeding the tennis court lights. Said lights work properly now, but here is my dilema.

My boss claims the sub panel needs a neutral wire (sub panel is 150 ft from main breaker), sub panel is for 208V equipment only. He claims also, because of distance, that the sub panel needs a ground rod drove and the sub panel needs to be bonded to the ground rod. He also claims because the distance is 150 to feeding breaker that they couldn't up the breaker size.

I consulted my old boss about these topics and I was given the answers that I told my current boss (there is no problem) but my current boss continues arguing with me stating he is right and I was taught by hillbilly electricians. So what do you think? Can you pull NEC codes from the book about sub panels needing a neutral for 208V only equipment, upping breaker sizes on long runs and driving a ground rod for long runs? I was told to post this here!

Oh btw, my boss has been a handy man for 15+ years, I did electrical work for 15 mo and my old boss has nearly 20 years of experience doing electrical work.

 

[charlie b]

I don't have much time to help at present, particularly to cite NEC articles. But your new boss is flat-out wrong! Distance has nothing to do with the relationship between wire size and breaker rating. The breaker only has to protect the wire at its ampacity. You may need to upsize the wires due to voltage drop considerations. But that would not change the requirements for the breaker rating.

I don't quite understand your description. Is there one and only one breaker that feeds the subpanel, and has that breaker been replaced by a 50 amp breaker? If so, and if an EGC is run with the circuit conductors, then a ground rod is not needed, regardless of the distances. Someone else will have to give you the NEC references.

 

[hillbilly1]

The only place the neutral is required regardless if it is used, is at the service. (If present at the service disconnect) It is not required at a sub panel. If the court was upgraded to LED from HID, the load may have been reduced enough that the panel wouldn’t have been needed, and all of them run off the existing 20 amp feeder. But without knowing the actual load, that is just speculation on my part.

 

[kwired]

If these lights were once HID and have been converted to LED, there may be plenty of capacity in the existing conductors as has been mentioned. The new lights may very well only draw 20-30% amps that the originals did

The grounded conductor (often is a "neutral") only needs to be present at the service equipment. Branch circuits and feeders beyond that point do not need to include the grounded conductor if it is not utilized by the load(s) supplied.

 

[tom baker]

If there are no 130 volt loads then a neutral is not required. I don’t believe ther is a code rule stating a neutral is required. If one is installed , then there is a rule on the minimum size.
And Charlie is right on about relationship of breaker and wire sizes

 

[hillbilly1]

It would be good practice though to label the panel “208 volts only” to prevent any misunderstanding. Assuming there is a neutral……..well you know what happens when you Ass.u.me! LOL!

 

[ptonsparky]

No neutral required.
An EGC is required and it should be bonded to the enclosure.

Are these indoor courts or out?

That will determine if GES should be installed and bonded to the EGC.

 

[roger]

Oh btw, my boss has been a handy man for 15+ years,

I think I see the problem.

I agree with the others.

 

[charlie b]

Is there one and only one breaker that feeds the subpanel, and has that breaker been replaced by a 50 amp breaker? If so, and if an EGC is run with the circuit conductors, then a ground rod is not needed, regardless of the distances. Someone else will have to give you the NEC references.

I found the reference article. It is 250.32(A) and the exception thereto. It appears to me that the subpanel and the pole, wall, building, or whatever it is attached to may very well constitute a "structure," as that word is defined in the NEC. If so, then a grounding electrode system (i.e., the ground rod to which your boss referred) would be required, unless you meet the exception. So, I will ask again, is there only one circuit that feeds the subpanel (very likely, though I cannot be certain) and does the feeder to the subpanel included an EGC (also very likely). If those are both "yes," then a ground rod is not required, and now you can show your boss the article that proves it.

 

[kwired]

I found the reference article. It is 250.32(A) and the exception thereto. It appears to me that the subpanel and the pole, wall, building, or whatever it is attached to may very well constitute a "structure," as that word is defined in the NEC. If so, then a grounding electrode system (i.e., the ground rod to which your boss referred) would be required, unless you meet the exception. So, I will ask again, is there only one circuit that feeds the subpanel (very likely, though I cannot be certain) and does the feeder to the subpanel included an EGC (also very likely). If those are both "yes," then a ground rod is not required, and now you can show your boss the article that proves it.

The exception is for when a branch circuit (including a multwire branch circuit) is supplying a separate building or structure.

If there is a "subpanel" being supplied then we are dealing with a feeder and the exception should not apply.

 

[Flicker Index]

The only place the neutral is required regardless if it is used, is at the service. (If present at the service disconnect) It is not required at a sub panel. If the court was upgraded to LED from HID, the load may have been reduced enough that the panel wouldn’t have been needed, and all of them run off the existing 20 amp feeder. But without knowing the actual load, that is just speculation on my part.

Definitely a change, but such a conversion is not necessarily an upgrade.

 

[ActionDave]

Been on four ball field projects in the last two years, all with LED lighting and it is the best I've seen. The lights work great and the cut off is amazing. There is no spillover and no glare. I'm sure it's just as good for a tennis court.