20A GFCI circuit with 15A receptacles

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peg

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I have a new house in Central Florida. The Kitchen couter GFIs are marked "Class A GFCI 20A 2P 125V 60HZ / 15A RECPT". This GFCI is fed from a 20A breaker with #12 wire. These also feed other 15A rated outlets along the countertops with #12 wire. How can one have 15A receptacles fed from a 20A breaker?
 
Re: 20A GFCI circuit with 15A receptacles

Welcome to the forum. Take a look at 210.21(B)(2). Your installation is code compliant.
 
Re: 20A GFCI circuit with 15A receptacles

The code says it's OK, but...from an engineering standpoint it's illogical. If a device has a rating all parts of the circuit should follow the rating. As I see the code the writers do not look at real life. People do not check if they have met 80% of the devices rating. Most folks would think you are crazy if you told them they can only plug in 80% of the devices rating. They will just plug things in until the breaker trips.

As a homeowner and engineer I like 20A receptacles in the kitchen because the blade contacts are heavier and make better contact over the life of the device. This is the weak point in the circuit. Most 15A recept. are cheap.
 
Re: 20A GFCI circuit with 15A receptacles

infinity,
think you meant to post 210.21(B)(3)in the responce to this thread.(receptacle ratings)

210.21(B(2)is cord and plug-connected load to receptacle
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Thank you Dillon for pointing out this mistake. I meant to type in 210.21(B)( 3 ).
 
Re: 20A GFCI circuit with 15A receptacles

As a homeowner and engineer I like 20A receptacles in the kitchen because the blade contacts are heavier and make better contact over the life of the device. This is the weak point in the circuit. Most 15A recept. are cheap.
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If the blade contacts in a 15 amp receptacle are cheap they still are listed to carry 15 amps. I don't see why this should be a problem. As far as overloading the circuit, a typical 15 amp general purpose circuit in a dwelling may have 10 or more receptacles on it. This could easily be overloaded too. That's why it's protected by a circuit breaker.
 
Re: 20A GFCI circuit with 15A receptacles

Peg, if I can get technical for a minute, there are gazillions of 15 amp receptacles fed from twenty amp circuits with no ill effects right this very minute.
 
Re: 20A GFCI circuit with 15A receptacles

Originally posted by jwelectric:
With conductors?
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roflol.gif
 
Re: 20A GFCI circuit with 15A receptacles

Does this mean that all of those brown extension cords made with #16 conductors that the home owner can go to walmart and buy must be gathered up and disposed of?


I am all for it!
:)
 
Re: 20A GFCI circuit with 15A receptacles

Peg,
First the 15 amp receptacle is designed and intended for use on 20 amp circuits. Second, each receptacle on the duplex is rated for 15 amps. And third, if your appliance cords, fit in the 15 amp receptacle, then the load is 15 amps or less.
As a homeowner and engineer I like 20A receptacles in the kitchen because the blade contacts are heavier and make better contact over the life of the device. This is the weak point in the circuit. Most 15A recept. are cheap.
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You get what you pay for, but if you compare 15 and 20 amp receptacles of the same series from the same manufacture, you will find that the only difference is the slots in the face of the receptacle. In other words, they have the same guts.
Don
 
Re: 20A GFCI circuit with 15A receptacles

You get what you pay for, but if you compare 15 and 20 amp receptacles of the same series from the same manufacture, you will find that the only difference is the slots in the face of the receptacle. In other words, they have the same guts.
Don
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I agree with Don. If quality is an issue than you should use specification grade receptacles. Or if you really want to spend money than use hospital grade receptacles. The quality is in the grade of the device not necessarily in the configuration of 15 or 20 amps.
 
Re: 20A GFCI circuit with 15A receptacles

I've never seen a quality difference between 15A and 20A receptacles from the same manufacturer of the same grade. I have, however, found huge quality differences between manufacturers.

Yes, it does seem odd that you can put a 15A receptacle on a 20A circuit, but you can't put a 20A receptacle on a 15A circuit. I like to keep things consistent, so I put 20A receptacles on 20A circuits.
 
Re: 20A GFCI circuit with 15A receptacles

It's interesting that some of you say the guts on 15 and 20 amp recept. are the same. The ones I have purchased in the past aren't the same. I would expect 20A is a heavier blade and one that makes better surface contact.
 
Re: 20A GFCI circuit with 15A receptacles

Tear a few different 15A & 20A duplex receptacles apart & compare the guts.
 
Re: 20A GFCI circuit with 15A receptacles

It's interesting that some of you say the guts on 15 and 20 amp recept. are the same. The ones I have purchased in the past aren't the same. I would expect 20A is a heavier blade and one that makes better surface contact.
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Well, if you're speaking about the ones sold at Home Depot than you may be correct. The reason being that big orange usually sells specification grade 20 amp devices and low grade 15 amp devices. You should see a big difference between a duplex that costs 50 cents and one that costs 5 bucks.
 
Re: 20A GFCI circuit with 15A receptacles

Peg: Speaking as one engineer to another engineer, let me caution you to be clear in distinguishing "legally required, code issues" from "good engineering practice." You should also be clear in distinguishing both of those from "what will make the client happy." The NEC is only concerned with providing a minimal system that is safe. It explicitly states that it is not a design manual, and that merely complying with the NEC will not provide assurances of an installation that is acceptable to the owner.
 
Re: 20A GFCI circuit with 15A receptacles

The GFCI receptacle itself explains what Don and others said, and I have before:

They are indeed capable of 20 amps; they just won't accept 20-amp plugs. A 20-amp receptacle indicates that it is on a circuit capapble of supplying 20 amps.

The slot shape is a rejection feature. Note that almost all 20-amp 125- and 250-volt receptacles accept their 15-amp counterparts; thus the T-slot.
 
Re: 20A GFCI circuit with 15A receptacles

Originally posted by peg:
The code says it's OK, but...from an engineering standpoint it's illogical. If a device has a rating all parts of the circuit should follow the rating. As I see the code the writers do not look at real life.
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Wow, it's a good thing you thought of this Peg, I'm sure the many hundreds of knowledgable and experienced individuals on the code making panel missed this one, thank God you're around. :D :D
 
Re: 20A GFCI circuit with 15A receptacles

Wow, it's a good thing you thought of this Peg, I'm sure the many hundreds of knowledgable and experienced individuals on the code making panel missed this one, thank God you're around.
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Bruce, your point is well taken but don't you think you're being a little hard on the new guy?
 
Re: 20A GFCI circuit with 15A receptacles

Welcome to the forum Peg,

As I see the code the writers do not look at real life.
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Sure they do, if they didn't you would see 20 Amp devices in your Kitchen! :)

Dave
 
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