20A recep on 15A circuit?

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JNOE

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Location
Cheyenne WY USA
Title says it all. Was this legal in previous codes
i have a electrical inspector (selling the house)telling me I cant have that now
I put them in years ago and it makes no sense why this
would be a problem now or in the past
technically the breaker protects the wire and the recep not the
load and a 15 breaker especially new gfci/afci
ones will trip ling before any problems would arose if
someone even plugged in a dedicated 20amp liad
To even find something these days outside of industrial and heavy
commercial use items that have a cord and plug with dedicated 20
configuration is almost impossible
Do I really have to change them???
 
If the 20A receptacle is not a stand-alone and is part of a multi-receptacle branch circuit, then it is allowed.
If it's a single receptacle then it has to be on a 20A breaker and the correct size wire, or the breaker would have to be changed to a 15A if the wire is only sized for 15A.

Welcome to the forum!
 
Thanks.

Thanks.

Hey thanks. Even though it still makes no sense to me
that a single 20amp recep cant be on a 15 amp circuit
mine are all part of a multi outlet system
its an old 1959 house with 2 wire ragwire so I grabbed the circuit at its first
recep and changed it to a 20amp gfci and changed all the downstream to 20 amp
new receps. Actually they are mostly hospital grade
and tamper resistant
i had a project that over ordered receps and back then i
was a 4th year apprentice so i asked if i could have the
extras. They sat at the shop for 3 months and then were
given to me. I asked the question i asked you and i was told
ya no problem as long as its over rated not underrated
I mean you dont have a violation for putting #6
on a 40amp breaker even though the wire could
somehow some way maybe get 55amps drawn on it
Thats why I always question an inspectors reasoning
and judgement and the people writting the code or
making the juristitional rules
Thanks again man
PS
I had seen that the code now allows the same thing backwards
with 15amp receps on a 20amp circuit unless its a single
outlet
 
Little Bill said:
If the 20A receptacle is not a stand-alone and is part of a multi-receptacle branch circuit, then it is allowed.
If it's a single receptacle then it has to be on a 20A breaker and the correct size wire, or the breaker would have to be changed to a 15A if the wire is only sized for 15A.
Click to expand...

Isnt that the other way around? One single (simplex) 20A receptacle is allowed on a 15A breaker, but a duplex or multiple receptacles must be 15A.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JNOE, welcome to the forum. If the wiring is all #14, then changing out the 20A receptacles to 15A is the only choice. If it's #12, you could upsize the breakers to 20A and be compliant. You dont need spec/hospital grade GFCI receptacles, and if you buy 3-packs or contractor packs of TR GFCI receptacles the price goes down to around the $11 ea mark. All of the regular receptacles will need the "GFCI Protected - No Equipment Ground" stickers as well (if on the load side of the GFCI).


"I mean you dont have a violation for putting #6 on a 40amp breaker even though the wire could somehow some way maybe get 55amps drawn on it"

Barring some massive derating for bundling/conduit fill or high ambient temperatures, there is nothing unsafe about using #6 on a 40A breaker. Most old 3 wire ranges have exactly that setup: 3 wire #6 AL SE cable to a 50A tombstone receptacle utilizing a 40A breaker.
 
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JFletcher said:
Isnt that the other way around? One single (simplex) 20A receptacle is allowed on a 15A breaker, but a duplex or multiple receptacles must be 15A.
Click to expand...

Yes, and this addresses the issue of a 40 amp circuit (like a kitchen range) where only 50 amp single receptacles are manufactured.
 
infinity said:
Addresses what specifically? The larger single receptacle on a circuit less than its rating?
Click to expand...
yes. Go ahead and shoot me down with a code section now:)

40 amp circuit/ 50 amp receptacle is one situation that has already been covered.

Get over 50 amps and if anything the rules change a little. You don't necessarily find a receptacle rated for 150 amps to plug that 115 amp load into and may end up using a device rated for 200 amps but only have a 150 amp circuit.
 
JFletcher said:
Table 210.21(B)(3). You could put 5 50A receptacles on a 40A breaker so long as you dont violate 210.23.
Click to expand...
This is what I get for posting before confirming - Table 210.21(B)(3) pretty much says a 15 amp circuit can not have over a 15 amp receptacle on it.

IMO there is little harm in putting a 20 amp receptacle on a 15 amp circuit and this is another case of NEC being the design manual it says it is not in 90.1
 
sorry

sorry

Sorry guys
actually the comment about the #6 on a 40a
was just me making the point that if the it was a rulit
would be a dumb one just like not allowing a few
20amp receps on 15amp circuit
I've been a sparky for 20 years and I have constantly
looked down my nose at the NEC code panel
and local juristictional rules because I always question
something that makes no sense to me
Obviously it does not matter, if its a violation to put the
20A receps on a 15A circuit me wuestioning it wont
change it.
I just couldn't find it as I have been away from the
code for a decade working overseas
I had always thought it was ok in the past and wanted
to use that as the argument to the inspector since thry were not installed
recently
Only reason the spec grades got used was because they were free
I was just trying to save time and effort on selling my house even though
I could change them all in about 4 hours for less than
100 bucks with all the headend gfci as well
Sorry to have confused everyone with the
I simply dont see why my receps are a violation since they are
overrated for the circuit. I wanted to know
if it was ever acceptable
Also I say a lot of the NEC is written for the sake
sales of new innovations on the market
Just like the AFCI rule for living spaces
The code is protecting agaist stupid people who
cause fire or injury. You cant protect everyone against everything
Natural Selection in this world is a good thing
I wanted to ask this forum because I know
there are a ton of smarter than me electricians on this
forum
So I am reading it now that I have to change
all of my receps???
 
JNOE said:
Sorry guys
actually the comment about the #6 on a 40a
was just me making the point that if the it was a rulit
would be a dumb one just like not allowing a few
20amp receps on 15amp circuit
I've been a sparky for 20 years and I have constantly
looked down my nose at the NEC code panel
and local juristictional rules because I always question
something that makes no sense to me
Obviously it does not matter, if its a violation to put the
20A receps on a 15A circuit me wuestioning it wont
change it.
I just couldn't find it as I have been away from the
code for a decade working overseas
I had always thought it was ok in the past and wanted
to use that as the argument to the inspector since thry were not installed
recently
Only reason the spec grades got used was because they were free
I was just trying to save time and effort on selling my house even though
I could change them all in about 4 hours for less than
100 bucks with all the headend gfci as well
Sorry to have confused everyone with the
I simply dont see why my receps are a violation since they are
overrated for the circuit. I wanted to know
if it was ever acceptable
Also I say a lot of the NEC is written for the sake
sales of new innovations on the market
Just like the AFCI rule for living spaces
The code is protecting agaist stupid people who
cause fire or injury. You cant protect everyone against everything
Natural Selection in this world is a good thing
I wanted to ask this forum because I know
there are a ton of smarter than me electricians on this
forum
So I am reading it now that I have to change
all of my receps???
Click to expand...

I'm afraid your installation is safe but still not compliant. The AFCI debate started out as a legitimate attempt to increase safety, then got forced on us even though the product available didn't necessarily do what the makers said it will do. So that case alone is exceptional to many others that are in the code when it comes to abusing the intent of the code by it's own code making panels.

I don't want to turn this thread into another AFCI debate, but OP did pull the starting pistol trigger. There are many threads, some pretty lengthy on the AFCI topic.
 
20 amp recep on a 15amp circuit.

20 amp recep on a 15amp circuit.

Putting a 20 amp recep on a 15 amp circuit is dangerous. You have to look at it this way you may have not have been using 20 amps on that circuit but the second you do decide to use a 20 amp plug the wire ampacety wouldn't be able to handle that much amps flowing through it. which could possibly cause a fire from the heat in the wire. That is a major reason why its against the code and if you hired somebody to do that its illegal so in my opinion when doing any type of electrical work in your house make sure it follows the code.
 
tbrisseau said:
Putting a 20 amp recep on a 15 amp circuit is dangerous. You have to look at it this way you may have not have been using 20 amps on that circuit but the second you do decide to use a 20 amp plug the wire ampacety wouldn't be able to handle that much amps flowing through it. which could possibly cause a fire from the heat in the wire. That is a major reason why its against the code and if you hired somebody to do that its illegal so in my opinion when doing any type of electrical work in your house make sure it follows the code.
Click to expand...


I know that it is not compliant to put a 20 amp receptacle on a 15 amp circuit but think about what you stated above. The circuit is protected by a 15 amp overcurrent protective device.
 
tbrisseau said:
Putting a 20 amp recep on a 15 amp circuit is dangerous. You have to look at it this way you may have not have been using 20 amps on that circuit but the second you do decide to use a 20 amp plug the wire ampacety wouldn't be able to handle that much amps flowing through it. which could possibly cause a fire from the heat in the wire. That is a major reason why its against the code and if you hired somebody to do that its illegal so in my opinion when doing any type of electrical work in your house make sure it follows the code.
Click to expand...

The NEC allows a 20 amp single receptacle on a 15 amp circuit. If you overload the circuit the OCPD will protect the conductors.
 
kwired said:
...NEC being the design manual it says it is not in 90.1
Click to expand...

You need to reference things in the correct context. Dropping words to prove your point could be disingenuous. 90.1 says it is not a design manual... for untrained persons (my accentuation). IMO, This means that if you are trained (e.g. qualified) you can design using the NEC, if you are untrained don't expect the NEC to teach you.
 
tbrisseau said:
Putting a 20 amp recep on a 15 amp circuit is dangerous. You have to look at it this way you may have not have been using 20 amps on that circuit but the second you do decide to use a 20 amp plug the wire ampacety wouldn't be able to handle that much amps flowing through it. which could possibly cause a fire from the heat in the wire. That is a major reason why its against the code and if you hired somebody to do that its illegal so in my opinion when doing any type of electrical work in your house make sure it follows the code.
Click to expand...
Thats why the Code requires protecting the conductor at it's ampacity.
 
tbrisseau said:
Putting a 20 amp recep on a 15 amp circuit is dangerous. You have to look at it this way you may have not have been using 20 amps on that circuit but the second you do decide to use a 20 amp plug the wire ampacety wouldn't be able to handle that much amps flowing through it. which could possibly cause a fire from the heat in the wire. That is a major reason why its against the code and if you hired somebody to do that its illegal so in my opinion when doing any type of electrical work in your house make sure it follows the code.
Click to expand...

Not to pile it on here- but even if there was a full 20 amps on that ckt, the #14 would very likely safely handle that load indefinitely.

Violation, sure (in most cases....). Imminent danger, no.

The amperage tables were designed with a cushion in mind- which FTR, I see nothing wrong with.
 
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