20amp 2pole on 12/3 wire

[LarryFine]

Re: 20amp 2pole on 12/3 wire

Originally posted by electricmanscott:

Originally posted by LarryFine:

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
You can take that spare and feed 1/2 of a 20 amp duplex behind the fridge and then you can plug in your portable cord and plug connected under cabinet light without violating 210.52 (B) (3).

But then aren't you required to use a 20-amp duplex, since each half of said receptacle is now a single receptacle, as specified in 210.21(B)(1)?

I'll just assume you were sleepy when you posted this.

More tongue-in-cheek than sleepy, but I'm sure the argument could be made. To wit:

If we get to call a duplex not a single device, because there are two receptacles, then why couldn't one say that each half of a duplex qualifies as a device, and a single device at that.

To restate: if a duplex is two devices, then it is two single devices on a yoke. Anyone else want to fall into, I mean, contribute to this discussion?

Edited to add:Okay, now I see that you specified a 20-amp receptacle when you said it. Was that in line with my point, or would you say that a 15-amp duplex could be used on a 3-wire 20-amp circuit the way it can be used on a single 20-amp circuit?

[ September 04, 2005, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: LarryFine ]

 

[LarryFine]

Re: 20amp 2pole on 12/3 wire

Oops!

[ September 04, 2005, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: LarryFine ]

 

[LarryFine]

Re: 20amp 2pole on 12/3 wire

Oops! Did it again!

 

[iwire]

Re: 20amp 2pole on 12/3 wire

Larry a duplex receptacle is without a doubt two receptacles.

Easy test for this.

How many appliances can you plug into a duplex receptacle?

 

[iwire]

Re: 20amp 2pole on 12/3 wire

Oh if you want to call a duplex two devices you can do that as well, the NEC already does.

2002 NEC

210.4(B) In dwelling units, a multiwire branch circuit supplying more than one device or equipment on the same yoke shall be provided with a means to disconnect simultaneously all ungrounded conductors at the panelboard where the branch circuit originated.

 

[LarryFine]

Re: 20amp 2pole on 12/3 wire

So it is correct that a split-wired receptacle fed via a 3-wire, 20-amp circuit cannot be a 15-amp receptacle, yes?

 

[iwire]

Re: 20amp 2pole on 12/3 wire

Originally posted by LarryFine:
So it is correct that a split-wired receptacle fed via a 3-wire, 20-amp circuit cannot be a 15-amp receptacle, yes?

Assuming those are the only receptacles on the circuits I agree with you.

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: 20amp 2pole on 12/3 wire

Larry, my point is that I aggree with you and that is actually what I had in my post. I figured you just missed it.

 

[LarryFine]

Re: 20amp 2pole on 12/3 wire

In that case, yes, I was sleepy.

 

[hurk27]

Re: 20amp 2pole on 12/3 wire

So it is correct that a split-wired receptacle fed via a 3-wire, 20-amp circuit cannot be a 15-amp receptacle, yes?

Your correct. But a split wired 20amp duplex receptacle can be on a 15 amp circuit as there will only be one receptacle on each circuit.
Still not a good design though.

 

[LarryFine]

Re: 20amp 2pole on 12/3 wire

Originally posted by hurk27:
...a split wired 20amp duplex receptacle can be on a 15 amp circuit as there will only be one receptacle on each circuit.

Not according to Table 210.21(B)(3), which says that a 20a receptacle cannot be on a 15a circuit.

 

[iwire]

Re: 20amp 2pole on 12/3 wire

Originally posted by LarryFine:

Originally posted by hurk27:
...a split wired 20amp duplex receptacle can be on a 15 amp circuit as there will only be one receptacle on each circuit.

Not according to Table 210.21(B)(3), which says that a 20a receptacle cannot be on a 15a circuit.

Larry the devil is in the details.

Table 210.21(B)(3) does not apply to single receptacle circuits, only multiple outlet circuits.

It's like the NEC wants to trip us up sometimes.

 

[LarryFine]

Re: 20amp 2pole on 12/3 wire

So we could place a 30a or 50a receptacle on a 15a circuit?

[ September 07, 2005, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: LarryFine ]

 

[hurk27]

Re: 20amp 2pole on 12/3 wire

So we could place a 30a or 50a receptacle on a 15a circuit?

Sure RV's try to do it all the time, through a UL listed adaptor.