210.12(A)(4), does this allow home runs not to be arc-fault protected?

[Bell County]

I’m an inspector in Bell County, Texas, a master electrician and graduate from the NJATC. Some of the electricians are not installing arc-fault breakers in new residential houses,only installing AFCI outlets.They are quoting 210.12 (A)(4) of the 2017 NEC. Being knowledgeable with the NEC, and also using the handbook’s commentary,particular Commentary Table 210.2, it’s clear to me the home runs have to be protected, and the combination of “identified” and “listed” devices do not currently exist.
To make the matter worse, I contacted the Chief Electrical Inspector and Electrical Occupations & Code Specialist at the Texas Department of Licensing & Regulation, and in writing,was informed that 210.12 (A)(4) does allow the use of standard 15 and 20amp breakers (non-arc fault), meaning the home runs are not arc-fault protected,in new houses. I’ve meet with about 15 local electrical contractors to discuss 210.12 (A)(4).They all agree the “home run” must be AFCI protected.
The issue is there are some electrical contractors that are interpreting 210.12 (A)(4) to mean a standard breaker can be used at the source, and the Texas Department of Licensing & Regulation is backing this interpretation.

 

[Bell County]

Sorry for the spacing missing between words

Sorry for the spacing missing between words

Sorry for the spacing missing between words. I wrote this in Word, then copy and pasted to here. It was correct before I posted.

 

[kwired]

I’m an inspector in Bell County, Texas, a master electricianand graduate from the NJATC. Some of theelectricians are not installing arc-fault breakers in new residential houses,only installing AFCI outlets.They arequoting 210.12 (A)(4) of the 2017 NEC.Being knowledgeable with the NEC, and also using the handbook’s commentary,particular Commentary Table 210.2, it’s clear to me the home runs have to beprotected, and the combination of “identified” and “listed” devices do notcurrently exist.
To make the matter worse, I contacted the Chief ElectricalInspector and Electrical Occupations & Code Specialist at the TexasDepartment of Licensing & Regulation, and in writing,was informed that 210.12 (A)(4) does allow the use of standard 15 and 20amp breakers (non-arc fault), meaning the home runs are not arc-fault protected,in new houses.I’ve meet with about 15 localelectrical contractors to discuss 210.12 (A)(4).They all agree the “home run” must be AFCI protected.
The issue is there are some electrical contractors that are interpreting210.12 (A)(4) to mean a standard breaker can be used at the source, and the TexasDepartment of Licensing & Regulation is backing thisinterpretation.

I don't know there is many or even any combinations on the market that comply with sub part (d)

Dennis Alwon recently started a post that might apply, I think this is what it was essentially about, that says Cutler Hammer is the only one out there that has devices that are listed to be used in such combination.

At a CEU class I was in that primarily covered changes to the 2017 it was mentioned that there was no devices out there that met those requirements, but possibly someone was close to having it is part of why it was in the code.

 

[jap]

I don't know there is many or even any combinations on the market that comply with sub part (d)

Dennis Alwon recently started a post that might apply, I think this is what it was essentially about, that says Cutler Hammer is the only one out there that has devices that are listed to be used in such combination.

At a CEU class I was in that primarily covered changes to the 2017 it was mentioned that there was no devices out there that met those requirements, but possibly someone was close to having it is part of why it was in the code.

I was under the assumption that those "Devices" could only be used with standard breakers feeding them if only certain types of robust wiring methods were used to protect the circuit conductors from the OCPD to the first outlet?

Otherwise the Arc Fault Protection would need to begin at the source.

JAP>

 

[ptonsparky]

You know what it says. ...(4) a,b,c,d are not optional.

5 & 6 are but the cost those are bit high.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I’m an inspector in Bell County, Texas, a master electricianand graduate from the NJATC. Some of theelectricians are not installing arc-fault breakers in new residential houses,only installing AFCI outlets.They arequoting 210.12 (A)(4) of the 2017 NEC.Being knowledgeable with the NEC, and also using the handbook’s commentary,particular Commentary Table 210.2, it’s clear to me the home runs have to beprotected, and the combination of “identified” and “listed” devices do notcurrently exist.
To make the matter worse, I contacted the Chief ElectricalInspector and Electrical Occupations & Code Specialist at the TexasDepartment of Licensing & Regulation, and in writing,was informed that 210.12 (A)(4) does allow the use of standard 15 and 20amp breakers (non-arc fault), meaning the home runs are not arc-fault protected,in new houses.I’ve meet with about 15 localelectrical contractors to discuss 210.12 (A)(4).They all agree the “home run” must be AFCI protected.
The issue is there are some electrical contractors that are interpreting210.12 (A)(4) to mean a standard breaker can be used at the source, and the TexasDepartment of Licensing & Regulation is backing thisinterpretation.

You are correct and the others are wrong. The circuit breaker must be a listed breaker that works in unison with an afci breaker. I am not sure what the difference is between A(3)or(4) however I was told at a conference this week that Eaton's Cutler Hammer is the only manufacturer that makes these devices. They are sold as a pair and must be used together

 

[kwired]

You know what it says. ...(4) a,b,c,d are not optional.

5 & 6 are but the cost those are bit high.

(4) is an option, except there is nothing out there (except maybe recently the Cutler Hammer products that Dennis started a thread about) that fulfills the requirement of (d).

This wording was in 2014 also, I remember it being mentioned at a CEU class there was currently no products on the market that meet requirements of (d), but it was assumed that it was put into code because something possibly was coming that would comply. Cutler Hammer might be only one so far that has something.

 

[texie]

I’m an inspector in Bell County, Texas, a master electricianand graduate from the NJATC. Some of theelectricians are not installing arc-fault breakers in new residential houses,only installing AFCI outlets.They arequoting 210.12 (A)(4) of the 2017 NEC.Being knowledgeable with the NEC, and also using the handbook’s commentary,particular Commentary Table 210.2, it’s clear to me the home runs have to beprotected, and the combination of “identified” and “listed” devices do notcurrently exist.
To make the matter worse, I contacted the Chief ElectricalInspector and Electrical Occupations & Code Specialist at the TexasDepartment of Licensing & Regulation, and in writing,was informed that 210.12 (A)(4) does allow the use of standard 15 and 20amp breakers (non-arc fault), meaning the home runs are not arc-fault protected,in new houses.I’ve meet with about 15 localelectrical contractors to discuss 210.12 (A)(4).They all agree the “home run” must be AFCI protected.
The issue is there are some electrical contractors that are interpreting210.12 (A)(4) to mean a standard breaker can be used at the source, and the TexasDepartment of Licensing & Regulation is backing thisinterpretation.

You are correct. See Here: ​http://productspec.ul.com/details.php?code=nec&edition=2017&section=210.12%28A%29%284%29&ccn=AWDT
Note that there is only one product (Eaton) that allows this. Also, note all the requirements that go along with it.
Are you getting this bad info from Jerry Daniels?

 

[kwired]

You are correct. See Here: ​http://productspec.ul.com/details.php?code=nec&edition=2017&section=210.12%2%208A%29%284%29&ccn=AWDT
Note that there is only one product from Eaton that allows this.

Which according to wording, the OBC AFCI and the branch circuit device must be listed for use in combination with one another so at a minimum that is two products that must be used together. It can't be any ordinary circuit breaker with any OBC AFCI.

Don't know what the cost may be, but unless it is considerably less than a CAFCI, or ends up having less unexplained trips, I don't see it getting used much.

 

[ptonsparky]

(4) is an option, except there is nothing out there (except maybe recently the Cutler Hammer products that Dennis started a thread about) that fulfills the requirement of (d).

This wording was in 2014 also, I remember it being mentioned at a CEU class there was currently no products on the market that meet requirements of (d), but it was assumed that it was put into code because something possibly was coming that would comply. Cutler Hammer might be only one so far that has something.

4 is an option but a thru d are requirements of it.

 

[kwired]

4 is an option but a thru d are requirements of it.

correct. d used to be the one requirement that couldn't be met. Might be some product availability now that it can be done though.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I am hoping the op comes back--- [MENTION=160177]Bell County[/MENTION]

 

[Bell County]

You are correct. See Here: ​http://productspec.ul.com/details.php?code=nec&edition=2017&section=210.12%28A%29%284%29&ccn=AWDT
Note that there is only one product (Eaton) that allows this. Also, note all the requirements that go along with it.
Are you getting this bad info from Jerry Daniels?

Yes. I got it in writing (email).

 

[Bell County]

Thanks for the link. That was exactly what I needed. Explains everything, and proves the "identified" and "listing" requirements are not pertaining to a standard breaker.

 

[Bell County]

The link below, which was posted by texie on here, proves the"identified" and "listing" requirements are not pertaining to a standard breaker.

http://productspec.ul.com/details.php?code=nec&edition=2017&section=210.12%28A%29%284%29&ccn=AWDT



The link below, which was posted by texie onhere, proves the"identified" and "listing" requirements are not pertainingto a standard breaker.
http://productspec.ul.com/details.php?code=nec&edition=2017&section=210.12%28A%29%284%29&ccn=AWDT

Thiscategory covers system-combination arc-fault circuit protection intended forinstallation in accordance with ANSI/NFPA 70, "NationalElectrical Code." System-combination arc-fault circuitprotection is a system consisting of a certified outlet branch-circuit AFCIinstalled at the first outlet of a branch circuit in combination with aspecified certified molded-case circuit breaker installed as the branch-circuitovercurrent protective device. The system-combination is intended to provideprotection of the branch-circuit wiring, feeder wiring, or both, and cord setsand power-supply cords connected to receptacles against the unwanted effects ofarcing. The certified outlet branch-circuit AFCI with its specified certifiedmolded-case circuit breaker is packaged together as a certifiedsystem-combination arc-fault circuit protection system.

RATINGS​

These devices are rated 15 or 20 A, 120 V or120/240 V.

PRODUCT MARKINGS​

The certified outlet branch-circuit AFCI and thecertified molded-case circuit breaker that are part of a system-combination areprovided with identification for use as a system-combination. This informationincludes the manufacturer, type or catalog number, and rating, and is providedon the installation instructions packaged with the device, or the smallest unitpackaging provided with the device, or both.
System-combination AFCIs are marked"System-Combination Arc-fault Circuit Interrupter" (or"System-Combination AFCI") where visible with a dead-front orfaceplate removed, while the device is installed.

PRODUCT IDENTITY​

One of the following product identities appearson the product:

SC AFCI

System-Combination AFCI

System-Combination Arc-fault Circuit Interrupter

RELATED PRODUCTS​

See Arc-fault Circuit Interrupters, OutletBranch Circuit Type (AWBZ)and Circuit Breakers, Molded Case and Circuit-breaker Enclosures (DIVQ).

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION​

For additional information, see Arc-faultCircuit Interrupters (AVYI)and Electrical Equipment for Use in Ordinary Locations (AALZ).

REQUIREMENTS​

The basic standard used to investigate productsin this category is ANSI/UL 1699, "Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupters."

UL MARK​

The Certification Mark of UL on the product isthe only method provided by UL to identify products manufactured under itsCertification and Follow-Up Service. The Certification Mark for these products includes the UL symbol,the words "CERTIFIED" and "SAFETY," the geographicidentifier(s), and a file number.

 

[Bell County]

correct. d used to be the one requirement that couldn't be met. Might be some product availability now that it can be done though.

You are correct when using the proper "identified" and "listed" breaker and AFCI outlet combo, which now has been discussed in this forum, but not a standard breaker as some of the electrical contractors have been installing. As an inspector, I have disapproved these installs, but the same contractors are doing this code violation in other areas outside my jurisdiction.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

(d) cannot be met, there is not even an standard to list that device to if you wanted to make one.

 

[electrofelon]

We have an inspector here that also uses that interpretation (I agree there is nothing to interpret, he is wrong), so we can use just AFCI receps at the first outlet if the max lengths are met. It is all private 3rd party inspections here so the inspector is kinda the AHJ I guess. When I started using this inspector, I started using the receps to save some money, but I had lots of trouble with nuisance tripping. They were P&S AFCI receps. That and I was doing a bunch of rental apts for my cousin and I didnt think it was worth having an AFCI trip and the tenant probably wouldnt figure it out so would call the landlord and that would be a hassle for everyone. So I went back to just using the breakers.

 

[texie]

(d) cannot be met, there is not even an standard to list that device to if you wanted to make one.

According to UL the Eaton listing meets 210.12(A)(4) as a "System Combination". In other words a specific breaker and AFCI device tested and listed as a system.
I believe you are correct if you are referring to 210.12(A)(3) as I don't think a "supplemental arc protection circuit breaker" exist due to the standards issue.

 

[bullheimer]

dont know why i'm even answering or trying to answer this because i dont know wtf everybody is talking about with products that dont meet requirements. i will just go by what i've done. i've been, or state of WA has been on 2017 since 2017. everybody i know makes breakers that are gfi and afci called dual function breakers. yes the home runs have to be protected with afci because i have been given corrections for not useing breakers and saying that i would put an afci recept in at the first box with romex. NO. there is an exception with conduit or mc cable etc withing the footage requirements but like i said i got a correction with romex, ie new house. every mfg i know has a dual function breaker. i prefere to use an afci bkr with a gfi outlet if i can but sometimes you can't like for dishwasher or laundry or wherever the outlet will be behind something (under sink is ok here) and fridge doesnt have to be but washer and dishwasher i beleive are called out. that is actually why i am searching the posts here but not finding anything helpful. the fridge can escape the gfi i believe as it is not a kit. countertop outlet. anyway. you are not in texas so do as you wish, here in wash. i have no choice but to protect the h.r. late (sorry for spelling and hope this helps but sounds like it wont)