210.12(B)

[woofy]

Branch/feeder AFCI's shall be permitted to be used to meet the requirments of 210.12(B) untill January 1. 2008

I guess I have two questions

one What happens after that. Is this just a time for the manufacturers to ^get a^ recepticle type AFCI up and running. I'm totally lost here.

Two Are we supposed to go around and retrofit every bedroom in america.

I figured this was a new constuction thing but the rumors are rampant out here.
I've done some searches but haven't come up with the right answer yet. If there are some threads just point me at em

.......Mike
Edited so it hopfully makes more sense

[ January 28, 2005, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: woofy ]

 

[cpal]

Re: 210.12(B)

Branch / feeder AFCi are designed (loosely) to operate at fault current levels around 75 A. That isa general fault level used to developed the UL standard 1699 for AFCi (most homes). In 2008 as of this printing, (we still have a 3 year public format to address and adopt the 2008 code with out any changes to 210.12(B)).Every one will have to install the Combination type AFCI. That device will look to clear fault currents at about 5 amps. There are some that do not believe this will be practical. The devices on the market(branch / feeder) will clear lower value faults. YThey have a 30 millie amp leak current threshold.

All AFCI will operate as GFI's (not at the 5mA level though).


Cutler hammer and Nema will have links to lots of literature. also try http://www.arcfault.org/ lots of links

I could go on but it would be a lot of typing.

The bottom line is none of the devices we have today will protect against a series arcing fault unless there also is a 30mA fault to ground. The existing branch and feeder devices apparently only protect the wiring to the face of the outlet (in wall). I think the new combination devices will protect beyond the outlet and possibly into the utilization eq.

Charlie

[ January 29, 2005, 05:55 AM: Message edited by: cpal ]

 

[George Stolz]

Re: 210.12(B)

Your link has an extra comma on the end.

 

[woofy]

Re: 210.12(B)

Charlie

Thanks for the good links, they have been helpfull.

Every one will have to install the Combination type AFCI.

Ok this is exactly my Question. Does this mean Everyone when involed in new/remodel construction will have to install AFCI's. I can see that.

Does it also mean if you do a service call for whatever reason you MUST install the AFCI's even if that's not what you're there for.

Does it mean there is a plan to start at the top of the block and start installing them all down the street. I realize that sounds stupid but that's kind of what it semms like.

I guess what i'm saying is when I go to the little old lady's house to fix a broken keyless in a closet, do I have to upgrade her house at that time.

makes me crazy.......Mike

 

[charlie]

Re: 210.12(B)

Mike, it is up to your local jurisdiction. The reality is that the new homes generally do not need AFCIs. However, new homes become old homes. By the time an AFCI becomes old, will it still perform? Has it ever been exercised? If Joe Homeowner does exercise a circuit breaker and it fails to reset, will he ever exercise them again?

The combination type AFCIs should be in every home where extension cords are used and appliances are plugged into the receptacle if they work as advertised and don't have problems. Of course, we were told the last time that the AFCIs we are requiring now will do what the AFCIs of the future will do. HMMM :roll: