210.19(A)(3) Exception

Status
Not open for further replies.
jwelectric

jwelectric

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
210.19(A)(3) Exception one allows for tap conductors to be installed on a 50 branch circuit for a range.

Could this exception be used to install a cook top in an island in the middle of the kitchen floor with the oven on the wall?
 
Re: 210.19(A)(3) Exception

Yes, but good luck getting around the "The taps shall not be longer than necessary for servicing the appliance." part.
 
Re: 210.19(A)(3) Exception

This is just what I am addressing. I agree with the not longer that for servicing thought but I am in a debate with just how long is this and just what is meant by servicing.
:confused:
 
Re: 210.19(A)(3) Exception

Originally posted by jwelectric:. . . but I am in a debate with . . . just what is meant by servicing.
Click to expand...
I think it means you can add just enough slack so that you can pull the range away from the wall and do some work on the back side of it. But the tap conductors cannot be longer than is necessary to give you that amount of slack.

I don't see how this would apply to a cook top unit, unless you can lift the cook top off, set it on the counter, and do some work inside the unit.
 
Re: 210.19(A)(3) Exception

These tap conductors
include any conductors that are a part of the leads supplied
with the appliance that are smaller than the branch circuit
conductors.


you guys are the code gurus, but are you saying that you bought a wall mount oven that came with tap conductors long enough to reach the island?

did i mis read this section?
 
Re: 210.19(A)(3) Exception

They don't have to. Let's talk about the range. Suppose you need a total length of 2 feet for the conductors to reach from the wall outlet to the connection point on the range. Suppose that in order to work on the back of the range, you need to be able to move the range another 3 feet away from the wall. So the total length of the tap conductors can be no longer than that total of 2 + 3, or 5 feet. Now suppose that the range manufacturer gave you 1 foot of conductor. Then, you can add 4 more feet of tap conductors, so that the total length is no more than 5 feet.
 
Re: 210.19(A)(3) Exception

Case in point;
Electrical contractor wired for a freestanding range on the rough-in and no island was called for. On final an island had been installed with a cook top and a wall oven.
Electrical contractor used 10/3 with ground from a 4 sq. box to supply cook top as the panel is in the garage and would be hard to access.

Inspector was asking for my take and I gave the same thoughts that have been expressed here so far. I posted the question here in hopes of being able to give the inspector as well as the electrician some input.
:)
 
Re: 210.19(A)(3) Exception

everyone here is always arguing code.

where does it say that i can attach leads not supplied with the appliance to the ones supplied with the appliance?

and how does going across the room become the same as having enough lenght to work on the appliance. are you suggesting that the wall oven would have to be pulled way out so that you can work on a cook top in the middle of the room?

I am totally confused, purhaps someone can help me to understand.

[ December 08, 2005, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: jbwhite ]
 
Re: 210.19(A)(3) Exception

Originally posted by jbwhite:
everyone here is always arguing code.
Click to expand...
Now I am confused.

The name of this forum is National Electric Code Internet Connection

It is not the How jbwhite would do it Internet Connection :D

What would you have us argue about?
:confused:

where does it say that i can attach leads not supplied with the appliance to the ones supplied with the appliance?
Click to expand...
Where does it say we can not?

The NEC is a permissive code, meaning if something is not directly prohibited it is OK.
 
Re: 210.19(A)(3) Exception

(3) Household Ranges and Cooking Appliances. Branchcircuit
conductors supplying household ranges, wall-mounted
ovens, counter-mounted cooking units, and other household
cooking appliances shall have an ampacity not less than
rating of the branch circuit and not less than the maximum
load to be served. For ranges of 83⁄4 kW or more rating,
minimum branch-circuit rating shall be 40 amperes.

iwire, that is the part that says you cant. i was talking about the exception that says under certain conditions you can.

spesificly the part about.

Exception No. 1: Tap conductors supplying electric
ranges, wall-mounted electric ovens, and counter-mounted
electric cooking units from a 50-ampere branch circuit
shall have an ampacity of not less than 20 and shall be
suffıcient for the load to be served. These tap conductors
include any conductors that are a part of the leads supplied
with the appliance that are smaller than the branch circuit
conductors. The taps shall not be longer than necessary for
servicing the appliance.

can you help me to understand?
 
Re: 210.19(A)(3) Exception

Originally posted by jbwhite:
can you help me to understand?
Click to expand...
Exception No. 1: Tap conductors supplying electric
ranges, wall-mounted electric ovens, and counter-mounted
electric cooking units from a 50-ampere branch circuit
shall have an ampacity of not less than 20 and shall be
suffıcient for the load to be served. These tap conductors
include any conductors that are a part of the leads supplied
with the appliance that are smaller than the branch circuit
conductors. The taps shall not be longer than necessary for
servicing the appliance.
Click to expand...
Nothing in that exception prohibits adding length to the conductors that are a part of the leads supplied with the appliance.

All it tells us is the conductors that are a part of the leads supplied with the appliance are included in the tap.

[ December 08, 2005, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
Re: 210.19(A)(3) Exception

jbwhite,

Your last quote uses the phrase "These tap conductors include..". This phrase means the appliance leads may be treated (included as) tap conductors. It say nothing about limiting the exception to those leads only.

Of course the connection of manufacturer supplied leads to general conductors used as taps, must be done using an approved method.
 
Re: 210.19(A)(3) Exception

thanks iwire.

i love this place, i leaarn so much. :)

so now, how does the OP question about running them from a wall oven to a cook top in the island apply.

i dont see the need to pull the wall mount oven out to service the cook top.
 
Re: 210.19(A)(3) Exception

Originally posted by iwire:
The NEC is a permissive code, meaning if something is not directly prohibited it is OK.
Click to expand...
i keep forgeting that we live in the us not russia. if it is not explicitly illegal, than it is legal.. lol
 
Re: 210.19(A)(3) Exception

IMO it is really pushing the vague "only as long as needed for servicing" part of the section further than any inspector would allow.
 
Re: 210.19(A)(3) Exception

Originally posted by jwelectric:Electrical contractor used 10/3 with ground from a 4 sq. box to supply cook top . . . .
Click to expand...
Mike, is a #10 (i.e., 30 amp ampacity) sufficient, in view of the following statement?
Exception No. 1: Tap conductors supplying electric ranges, wall-mounted electric ovens, and counter-mounted electric cooking units from a 50-ampere branch circuit shall have an ampacity of not less than 20 and shall be sufficient for the load to be served.
Click to expand...
 
Re: 210.19(A)(3) Exception

After all the talk of tap cond. lenghts,No body has addressed a real simple matter the 10/3 to the island surely it was piped unless a wood floor and if it was piped in a slab was that 10/3 uf :eek:
 
Re: 210.19(A)(3) Exception

Originally posted by allenwayne:
After all the talk of tap cond. lenghts,No body has addressed a real simple matter the 10/3 to the island surely it was piped unless a wood floor and if it was piped in a slab was that 10/3 uf :eek:
Click to expand...
some people have basements.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top