210.5(C)(1)(a) Colors for Ungrounded Conductors

Status
Not open for further replies.
ron

ron

Senior Member
Location
New York, 40.7514,-73.9925
I'm at a building where 480/277V is Brown Orange Yellow, and 120/208V is Red Black Blue.

We will be introducing a new nominal voltage system: 415/240V.

Has anyone worked in a building with this condition and found wire manufacturers that had "standard" wire conductor colors that we could try to follow for this 3rd system?
 
If it its IEC standards based equipment, or for testing such equipment I plead 90.2(C) special permission to use IEC standards.
If its a special system from across the pond or going across the pond, its going to use IEC standards for the rest of it. No need to make it confusing as long as its not going to interact with other north American made stuff.
89% of the world uses this standard other than North America. Your guest Engineers from Europe will be happy and find it easy to understand.
 

Attachments

  • IEC_colors.png
    IEC_colors.png
    77.4 KB · Views: 18
I ran into this problem before. Existing 240 three phase high leg system was black orange blue. Added 480/277 and made it brown violet yellow. Then added single phase 120/240 but only had one color left, red. I gave never seen any other colors than those 7. There are others ways to comply as I'm sure you are aware.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ron
I would use the 480/277 colors with a tape mark at each termination. The code does not specify the method to be used to identify the conductors by phase and system.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ron
I doubt you can use Blue as a neutral as suggested. I would bet most manufacturers- southwire etc, would have many available colors. They also will make it to order
 
electrofelon said:
I ran into this problem before. Existing 240 three phase high leg system was black orange blue. Added 480/277 and made it brown violet yellow. Then added single phase 120/240 but only had one color left, red. I gave never seen any other colors than those 7. There are others ways to comply as I'm sure you are aware.
Click to expand...
There is also pink.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I doubt you can use Blue as a neutral as suggested. I would bet most manufacturers- southwire etc, would have many available colors. They also will make it to order
Click to expand...
Also grey cannot be used for ungrounded conductors in a raceway.
Southwire offers wire with a stripe, but I don't know if it's normally stocked.
 
Last edited:
Note that 210.5 states "identified" so don't get fixated on color. If there are a limted number of termination/splice points, tagging the wire with a marker is one possible solution . IMO, a red (or other color) wire with a tag marked "415v" would be Code compliant.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ron
augie47 said:
Note that 210.5 states "identified" so don't get fixated on color. If there are a limted number of termination/splice points, tagging the wire with a marker is one possible solution . IMO, a red (or other color) wire with a tag marked "415v" would be Code compliant.
Click to expand...

This. Colors are not the only marking method. Label-makers are great.
 
ron said:
It is not IEC based. It is server equipment in a data center
Click to expand...
Ahh so you wont really have any 400V loads it will really be all L-N 240V loads?
Yeah '415V' labels if you don't have miles of cable.
The section I meant to quote before was 90.4 'Special permission'. It involves a letter to the local AHJ requesting 'special permission' to use IEC colors.
 
It's funny to me how using all these different colors to try and make things less confusing gets so confusing.
 
LarryFine said:
You could always use three purples.
Click to expand...
I dont know if your serious but if there are few 3 phase motor loads, as presumably it all ends up on drumroll... 230V IEC C13 connectors/cords in the data center a sequence of colors is not as important, and where it is you could use A,B ,C labels.
That would save a lot of time and effort.
They make white with with a blue stripe which could be the neutral, you might even find white with purple stripe.
 
tortuga said:
I dont know if your serious . . .
Click to expand...
I was, actually. I did a programmed-lighting installation some years back, in a skywalk (Google Earth pics below) at the Greater Richmond Convention Center for an artist who was commissioned to make a sculpture, a pair of aluminum arches with crossed dichroic glass slats that change color as the light direction changes.

We ran four 3/4" EMTs from the electric room to the skywalk, three for wires, one for the remote-programming cable (so the artist could see what he was programming.) The instructions said we had to run unshared neutrals, so I bought spools of white and purple wire, so there would be no mix-up with any other building wiring.

I terminated the three power EMTs in a covered bot, attached a couple of ground strips to the back of the box, and ran individual MC cables to each track-light strips. We had to thread two MCs with angle connectors down every other window frame tube from the top and out holes we drilled and into the end feeds of each strip.

If the links below work, you can move and zoom a bit. We had to use a 20-ft scissor lift to reach the ceiling inside the skywalk, which was made hairier by the height over the street. The track light heads look like groups of little birds sitting on the thicker horizontal window frame, and point up toward the glass slats.

www.google.com

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.com www.google.com

www.google.com

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.com www.google.com

www.google.com

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.com www.google.com
 
Did we really need to hear all of this to know you used purple wires for programmed lighting ?

🙂

JAP>
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top