210.52(A)(2) Wall Space

[George Stolz]

1.) NEC Section/Paragraph: 210.52(A)(2)
2.) Proposal Recommends: [new text]
3.) Proposal: Add the following text after the existing text under the provisions defining wall space:

The space afforded by islands and peninsulas as defined in 210.52(C) shall not be considered wall space in applying the requirements of this section.

4.) Substantiation: Islands and peninsulas that are adjacent to living areas not covered under the provisions of 210.52(B) sometimes require an installation of a 15 or 20 amp circuit to conform with this code. These outlets would seldom or never be used, and in many cases would be rendered unusable by breakfast bar type extensions of the countertop. There is also the additional risk of a "living room" outlet that is not required to be GFCI protected being installed in a location where GFI protection is required on the 20 amp circuit installed per 210.52(C)(2) or (3).

Comments?

 

[kendog]

Re: 210.52(A)(2) Wall Space

It is already answered, just not worded real well the only island or peninsula that is to be considered wall space is one high enoug to be considered a bar top (normally these are built like a wall anyway with studes and drywall)(2) Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall
include the following:
(1) Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including
space measured around corners) and unbroken along the
floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings
(2) The space occupied by fixed panels in exterior walls,
excluding sliding panels
(3) The space afforded by fixed room dividers such as freestanding
bar-type counters or railings

 

[George Stolz]

Re: 210.52(A)(2) Wall Space

I'm guessing everyone likes the existing text? The recent thread on this issue seems to indicate otherwise, or at least some clarity on the issue might be advisable?

 

[iwire]

Re: 210.52(A)(2) Wall Space

I just put outlets where the prints show them.

If left up to my own a house would get outlets everywhere.

 

[renosteinke]

Re: 210.52(A)(2) Wall Space

I agree that most peninsulas and islands that I have seen are designed in such a way as to make the installation of a receptacle difficult, with the receptacle hard to reach, results in a dangling cord, and is probably unnecessary.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: 210.52(A)(2) Wall Space

Okay, so how about this:

1.) NEC Section/Paragraph: 210.52(B)(2)
2.) Proposal Recommends: [new text]
3.) Proposal: Add an exception after the existing text:

Exception No. 3: Receptacles installed on an island or peninsula to serve other areas in compliance with the requirements of 210.52(A)(1) and (2) shall be on the same small appliance branch circuit(s) installed to comply with 210.52(C)(2) or (3).

4.) Substantiation: Islands and peninsulas that are adjacent to living areas not covered under the provisions of 210.52(B) sometimes require an installation of a 15 or 20 amp receptacle to conform with 210.52(A)(2)(3). There is the risk of a "living room" outlet that is not required to be GFCI protected being installed in a location where GFI protection is required on the 20 amp circuit installed per 210.52(C)(2) or (3).

[ February 13, 2005, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]

 

[George Stolz]

Re: 210.52(A)(2) Wall Space

Bumping this up to see if the second idea is more preferable than the first, and to see if it's just fine un-proposed.

 

[bphgravity]

Re: 210.52(A)(2) Wall Space

Perhaps this issue should be left to the AHJ to make the call. If adequate receptacles are provided at the couter spaces, then it is unlikely one would use the receptacle on the other side.

Its like afci protection. What happens on one side of the wall space doesn't effect what's happening on the other side. If I am standing in a room, and there is wall space that meets the specifications of 210.52(A)(2), it doesn't matter to me that the ther side of that wall space just happens to be an island or penisular counter space in a kitchen.

And though I am concerned with how a homeowner utilizes the electrical system as installed, a line needs to be drawn somwhere. You could put every safety device and procedure in place and someone will figure a way around it. It's human nature.

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: 210.52(A)(2) Wall Space

I don't see how a receptacle on the back side of an island would need gfci protection and if it did just install a gfci. It would likely be at standard wall receptacle height and not be serving the counter top. I'd like to see the whole requirement for island and peninsula receptacles taken out anyway.