210.8(B)(5) and floor sinks

[raider1]

I got asked an interesting question and the NEC seems a little vague on the answer.

Does a receptacle installed within 6' of the edge of a floor sink need to be GFCI protected?

A floor sink does not have a specific faucet that supplies it but receives the discharge from things like a 3 compartment sink or a drink machine. So in essence a floor sink is a large deep floor drain.

The question was asked in regards to a waitress station that is not in the kitchen but has a drink dispenser next to a floor sink.

So I guess my question would be does anyone feel that 210.8(B)(5) requires receptacles installed within 6' of a floor sink to be GFCI protected?

Chris

 

[rcarroll]

IMHO, GFI not required. A floor sink to me, is a big drain. I can't find any definitions in the IPC for floor sink, sink, or lav for that matter.

 

[raider1]

IMHO, GFI not required. A floor sink to me, is a big drain. I can't find any definitions in the IPC for floor sink, sink, or lav for that matter.

There is no definition of floor sink in the IPC but Section 427 is Titled "Floor Sinks" and section 427.1 requires sanitary floors sinks to conform to the requirements of ASME A112.6.7.

So floor sinks are mentioned in the IPC.

I do agree that a floor sink is really just a big drain.

Chris

 

[rcarroll]

There is no definition of floor sink in the IPC but Section 427 is Titled "Floor Sinks" and section 427.1 requires sanitary floors sinks to conform to the requirements of ASME A112.6.7.

So floor sinks are mentioned in the IPC.

I do agree that a floor sink is really just a big drain.

Chris

Yep, but I still believe asking for GFI is pushing the envelope. Just 'cuz of the word "sink".

 

[raider1]

Yep, but I still believe asking for GFI is pushing the envelope. Just 'cuz of the word "sink".

That is my feeling as well, I just wanted to get some other peoples opinions.

Thanks Ron,

Chris

 

[steve66]

In my opinion, the floor sink would normally have a cover over it that would keep electric appliances from falling in the water. So i would also say not required.

But I might be tempted to GFCI protect a waitress station anyway. It can get fairly wet around the drink machines.

Steve

 

[RICK NAPIER]

I would also see a floor sink as a drain. No GFI.

 

[George Stolz]

Does it take a stopper to make a sink?

What is the hazard the GFCI is protecting against in a normal sink versus a floor sink?

 

[macmikeman]

Does it take a stopper to make a sink?

What is the hazard the GFCI is protecting against in a normal sink versus a floor sink?

I don't know George, but this discussion has me wondering if I need to change the outlet near my dog Daisy's water dish.......

 

[mikeames]

Yep, but I still believe asking for GFI is pushing the envelope. Just 'cuz of the word "sink".

I am with you it is called sink. On the contrary if the only determinig factor of GFI is a faucet then I would asy no. But the code specifies sink regardless if weather it has a water supply or not.

JMHO

 

[mikeames]

I would also see a floor sink as a drain. No GFI.

Although I do see your point I respectfully disagree. I would not call a floor drain in a garage a sink.

My definiton of a sink would be a basin that can collect and hold water, regardless if it has a faucet.

 

[mikeames]

Are you talking about somethign like the following

or

 

[cowboyjwc]

I would agree that it is not required. Like I said in the other thread, I think that section is very well written. Remeber we didn't require them around wet bar sinks or laundry sinks for a long time, because it didn't call for them there.

Those that were trying to get them always used the argument that a sink is a sink.

 

[mikeames]

Ill be wrong..... Ive been wrong many times before.

 

[e57]

Not trying to be contrary - But I say yes...

Two reasons:

1. The NEC does not mention height of the sink or basin... Unlike a drain - a basin collects water and large enough to submerge a foot into when using say a corded tool like a floor polisher....
2. A floor sink is used as indirect drainage for an actual sink in most (90%) cases like restaurants etc. Which may or may not be installed, but see #1 again.

 

[jxofaltrds]

In a residential application then yes. 210.(A)(7) Note utility.

Now (B)(7) is less clear.

Since the building code does not define a sink we need to use our judgement.

"a stationary basin connected with a drain and usually a water supply for washing and drainage"

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck then it is a duck.

 

[e57]

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck then it is a duck.

Duck analogies have caused me trouble here before....

 

[M. D.]

I got asked an interesting question and the NEC seems a little vague on the answer.

Does a receptacle installed within 6' of the edge of a floor sink need to be GFCI protected?..........

........The question was asked in regards to a waitress station that is not in the kitchen but has a drink dispenser next to a floor sink.

So I guess my question would be does anyone feel that 210.8(B)(5) requires receptacles installed within 6' of a floor sink to be GFCI protected?

Chris

This is a good question ,.. I'm going with it is a sink.

Now what is the purpose of a floor sink ??

 

[M. D.]

This is an image of a floor sink ,.. sure looks like a sink ...

But this is also an image of a floor sink ,.. looks like a drain ... So I'll go with not required even though these things are sinks ,... they are not Laundry ,utility or the wet bar type

http://www.josam.com/catalog/JOS/line/FS

 

[raider1]

Thanks everyone.

The purpose of the floor sink is to catch the discharge from a drink dispenser.

IMHO this does not require GFCI protection but I wanted to get others opinions.

Chris