210.8(B)(8) - 2011 NEC

[david]

Though I agree with your position of where they are required, a quick search of the subject ground fault protection in schools professionals commenting on the subject believe the protection should be included in the areas you describe in this thread. One 2011 published example from the on line search.

Where should GCFIs be installed?

The National Electrical Codes (NEC) National Fire Protection Associations (NFPA) 70 requires GFCIs for receptacles
located outdoors, near swimming pools and vending machines; and also in bathrooms, garages, kitchens, crawl
spaces, and near laundry machines and utility sinks.
In educational facilities, places where the installation of GFCIs are recommended include:

 Science laboratories: Lab table sinks that include electrical outlets
 Home economics rooms: Kitchen counters with sinks with electrical outlets
 Industrial arts shops: Ideally, the circuit for the entire shop should be protected. Often shops have
overhead doors, allowing water to be tracked into the work area
 Fine arts classrooms: Potters’ wheels use water to shape the clay; if the wheel is powered by an electrical
motor, protection is necessary
 Swimming pools:

The requirements for electrical wiring in or adjacent to pools and spas are provided in
the National Electrical Code (NEC), which should be consulted by a qualified person.
Specific NEC requirements for GFCIs include: 125 volt receptacles within twenty feet of the inside walls of the
pool, lighting fixtures/outlets in the pool area between five feet and ten feet from the inside wall of the pool, and
motors/controllers used in electrically operated pool covers.

 Locker rooms: Sinks with electrical outlets for hair dryers, etc.
 Electrical outlets on the building exterior: Receptacles that are not part of the permanent wiring of the
building (such outlets hooked into portable generators for carnivals and similar temporary outdoor uses)
should have GFCIs
 Wet or damp environments or where electrical devices could contact fluids

 

[charlie b]

I don't see the wood working shop as falling under article 500. It is not a place where sawdust would accumulate in the air. The students might be using a belt or orbital sander, but that is not enough to create a hazardous atmosphere.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I don't see the wood working shop as falling under article 500. It is not a place where sawdust would accumulate in the air. The students might be using a belt or orbital sander, but that is not enough to create a hazardous atmosphere.

I agree...it is very unlikely that the wood shop is a classified area.

 

[mwm1752]

I don't see it as a code requirement, but I think it should be a design requirement for all of the shop and lab receptacles in a high school.

Have to agree here -- any of the school activities are more likely to be in the same as a residential garage for home projects -- but not code required BTW I hit the wrong button should have voted for 1#

 

[cpinetree]

Quote Originally Posted by raider1
I think that is a common misconception that any area with a concrete floor requires GFCI protection. I hear many electricians and inspectors stating that.
Chris

I agree and probably not a bad idea but it just isn't a code req. :thumbsup:

:happyno: Most all of south Florida would need gfi protected outlets, practically every home is built on a slab.

 

[texie]

Based on the information presented, I would be of the opinion that the auto portion would need to be GFCI to comply with 210.8 (B) (8). As I recall, the language change was to make it clear that the location of the receptacle is to be the driving criteria, not what is expected to be powered by the receptacle.
I do not believe that the other areas would require GFCI to meet the requirements of the NEC. Certainly an argument can be made that given the setting, GFCI for all areas might be a good design practice but that is another argument. The AHJ does not get to rule as a King and require things that are not in the NEC and/or by local amendment.
Some mentioned the idea that the wood working area should be classified. In my view, a shop of this nature would not be required to be classified as long as reasonable housekeeping practices are maintained to prevent dust buildup and there is a dust collection system.

 

[petersonra]

In educational facilities, places where the installation of GFCIs are recommended include:

 Science laboratories: Lab table sinks that include electrical outlets
 Home economics rooms: Kitchen counters with sinks with electrical outlets
 Industrial arts shops: Ideally, the circuit for the entire shop should be protected. Often shops have
overhead doors, allowing water to be tracked into the work area
 Fine arts classrooms: Potters’ wheels use water to shape the clay; if the wheel is powered by an electrical
motor, protection is necessary
 Swimming pools:

Just who is making these recommendations and what are they based on?

 

[mwm1752]

Based on the information presented, I would be of the opinion that the auto portion would need to be GFCI to comply with 210.8 (B) (8). As I recall, the language change was to make it clear that the location of the receptacle is to be the driving criteria, not what is expected to be powered by the receptacle.
I do not believe that the other areas would require GFCI to meet the requirements of the NEC. Certainly an argument can be made that given the setting, GFCI for all areas might be a good design practice but that is another argument. The AHJ does not get to rule as a King and require things that are not in the NEC and/or by local amendment.
Some mentioned the idea that the wood working area should be classified. In my view, a shop of this nature would not be required to be classified as long as reasonable housekeeping practices are maintained to prevent dust buildup and there is a dust collection system.

The adopted NEC is able to be amended and can be a ruling factor,as it should have been passed by the ruling government agencies - you can never allow less than the minimum code -- the I said so rule would not apply

 

[GoldDigger]

The adopted NEC is able to be amended and can be a ruling factor,as it should have been passed by the ruling government agencies - you can never allow less than the minimum code -- the I said so rule would not apply

Note that the idea of not allowing less than the minimum code is very much a state or local jurisdictional thing. Some states have no problem eliminating mandatory portions of the NEC that they disagree with (such as AFCIs).

 

[mwm1752]

Note that the idea of not allowing less than the minimum code is very much a state or local jurisdictional thing. Some states have no problem eliminating mandatory portions of the NEC that they disagree with (such as AFCIs).

Tru that -- thats part of my adopted code language -- exempt is not part of the code -- good point

 

[texie]

The adopted NEC is able to be amended and can be a ruling factor,as it should have been passed by the ruling government agencies - you can never allow less than the minimum code -- the I said so rule would not apply

Isn't that what I stated?

 

[david]

Just who is making these recommendations and what are they based on?

As noted it was an on line search on the subject GFCI protection for schools. This happens to be a engineering firm

 

[mwm1752]

Isn't that what I stated?

After the reread I do believe so :roll: