210.8 GFCI protection

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Ktmbowhunter

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Hello,

Thoughts on gfci protecting garage door opener? If you place a gfci at the opener, you must use a ladder to access it. If you tie it in with your garage gfci outlet, you're protected but, use up nominal current availability. Why is it required that something out of reach require personnel gfci protection? How many garage door openers have you come across that are Gfci protected? Just tripped the gfci in my garage, garage door still opens, why? There is a breaker in the panel labeled garage door receptacle. Not gfci protected...
 
Welcome to The Forum.

Ktmbowhunter said:
Hello,

Thoughts on gfci protecting garage door opener? If you place a gfci at the opener, you must use a ladder to access it. If you tie it in with your garage gfci outlet, you're protected but, use up nominal current availability. Why is it required that something out of reach require personnel gfci protection? How many garage door openers have you come across that are Gfci protected? Just tripped the gfci in my garage, garage door still opens, why? There is a breaker in the panel labeled garage door receptacle. Not gfci protected...
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To answer your questions... I have no real opinion one way or the other of the garage door opener on a ground-fault protected circuit. You cannot place a GFCI receptacle at the opener, it must be readily accessible. As to using up available current, I have never run an air compressor or bench grinder or bandsaw while the garage door is in operation, garage doors are in operation what 15 seconds? the opener may be out of reach, however I suppose it is possible for a fault to energize the drivetrain and the door and track mechanism. Not sure how many. your garage door still opens because apparently it is on an individual circuit or not on the load side of your trip GFCI.
 
Ktmbowhunter said:
Hello,

Thoughts on gfci protecting garage door opener? If you place a gfci at the opener, you must use a ladder to access it. If you tie it in with your garage gfci outlet, you're protected but, use up nominal current availability. Why is it required that something out of reach require personnel gfci protection? How many garage door openers have you come across that are Gfci protected? Just tripped the gfci in my garage, garage door still opens, why? There is a breaker in the panel labeled garage door receptacle. Not gfci protected...
Click to expand...
Never used to require them to be protected, that changed in about 2005 or 2008. No more "dedicated" receptacles behind appliances either. I think main reason for change was people were figuring out those non protected receptacles didn't trip when using extension cords for various portable items, which is what the GFCI protection is mostly intended for, so they were using those receptacles and no longer had the protection we were wanting to provide in those situations.

Other than maybe an occasional trip from a surge, a GDO in good working condition shouldn't cause GFCI tripping issues anyway, nor should a refrigerator or freezer which were the other items often people didn't (and still don't) want on GFCI's.
 
retirede said:
I have a retractable trouble light which has a convenience receptacle mounted on the ceiling of my garage that is plugged into the GDO receptacle. GFCI protection is warranted.
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Another good reason, how many times does it get used to supply something that draws over 12 or 13 amps? Maybe yours doesn't, how many times does one belonging to someone that knows very little about electrical?
 
if you want to protect it you could use a 2 gang box at the switch, run the power in for the switch to a faceless gfci..then to the double pole switch... then from there up to the outlet for the garage door opener...

At least, that is what I do in Jamaica..lol...
 
kwired said:
Another good reason, how many times does it get used to supply something that draws over 12 or 13 amps? Maybe yours doesn't, how many times does one belonging to someone that knows very little about electrical?
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Right - I’d never power anything off the trouble light that drew significant current. The only thing I can ever remember plugging into it is a trickle charger (<2 A). But there can certainly be a failure from which the GFCI could protect the user.
The instructions with most cord reels say to completely extract the cord before using anywhere near capacity, but no one ever does. Topic for a different thread.
 
retirede said:
The instructions with most cord reels say to completely extract the cord before using anywhere near capacity, but no one ever does. Topic for a different thread.
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Non electricians seldom understand why. They may get by with nothing happening a few times and that gives them further confidence they did nothing wrong. Might run a table saw and only have a bunch of short duration cuts and get away with it. Then one day they are ripping a bunch of long pieces and it melts down
 
It seems we strayed from the topic. Why does certain equipment and outlets for personnel in a garage require Gfci protection per 210.8? If you look at the article it requires everything in a garage to be gfci protected. If a Garage door motor is out of reach, on an unshared dedicated circuit, why the need for Gfci protection?
 
Ktmbowhunter said:
It seems we strayed from the topic. Why does certain equipment and outlets for personnel in a garage require Gfci protection per 210.8? If you look at the article it requires everything in a garage to be gfci protected. If a Garage door motor is out of reach, on an unshared dedicated circuit, why the need for Gfci protection?
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I think the short answer is because it’s possible (and not all that uncommon) for someone to use a receptacle outlet intended for a GDO for other uses.

I’m not sure I buy the theory about the metallic parts of the opener being energized in case of a fault. I would expect any metal parts of the opener likely to become energized in event of a fault to be grounded by the egc via the 3 wire cord.
 
hbiss said:
Because it is conductively connected to the metallic garage door which anybody can touch.

-Hal
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Though what you said certainly isn't false information, I don't think the GDO is the primary reason they want all receptacles in the garage GFCI protected.
 
hbiss said:
Because it is conductively connected to the metallic garage door which anybody can touch.

-Hal
Click to expand...


Has nothing to do with the requirements. I saw (somewhere, can't remember where now) that, as Kwired pointed out, that people were using the non-GFCI receptacle at the opener to power things that they didn't want to trip. So the code makers made every receptacle in a garage be GFCI protected.
My opinion is they were "what ifing" and it was not that big of a problem.
 
Ktmbowhunter said:
Hello,

Thoughts on gfci protecting garage door opener? If you place a gfci at the opener, you must use a ladder to access it. If you tie it in with your garage gfci outlet, you're protected but, use up nominal current availability. Why is it required that something out of reach require personnel gfci protection? How many garage door openers have you come across that are Gfci protected? Just tripped the gfci in my garage, garage door still opens, why? There is a breaker in the panel labeled garage door receptacle. Not gfci protected...
Click to expand...
The substantiation for that requirement cited a couple of deaths where young kids standing barefoot on the concrete driveway touched the rails that had been energized as a result of a fault at the opener.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
The substantiation for that requirement cited a couple of deaths where young kids standing barefoot on the concrete driveway touched the rails that had been energized as a result of a fault at the opener.
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Which were probably plugged into a 2-prong receptacle using an adapter.
 
I attest to a real world experience with a GD opener that was connected to a 2 wire circuit at a residence where it did energize the door and rails. If I remember the cord that connected the GD opener was wrapped around the support brackets ( which I’m sure is very common ) and wore into the live conductor of cord thereby energizing the entire GD apparatus.

Had a GFCI been installed and enough current could flow say; from rails to concrete floor: the GFCI would trip and remove power.
 
Little Bill said:
Has nothing to do with the requirements. I saw (somewhere, can't remember where now) that, as Kwired pointed out, that people were using the non-GFCI receptacle at the opener to power things that they didn't want to trip. So the code makers made every receptacle in a garage be GFCI protected.
My opinion is they were "what ifing" and it was not that big of a problem.
Click to expand...

mopowr steve said:
I attest to a real world experience with a GD opener that was connected to a 2 wire circuit at a residence where it did energize the door and rails. If I remember the cord that connected the GD opener was wrapped around the support brackets ( which I’m sure is very common ) and wore into the live conductor of cord thereby energizing the entire GD apparatus.

Had a GFCI been installed and enough current could flow say; from rails to concrete floor: the GFCI would trip and remove power.
Click to expand...
Concrete floor is not likely enough to be conductive enough to allow for much current flow unless there is a puddle of water bridging the floor and the energized rail. As already mentioned an intact EGC would allow for the overcurrent protection to open the circuit when the fault first develops anyway. This is historically a main issue that creates GFCI requirements on 5-15 and 5-20 receptacles/plugs - the fact that they seem to have compromised EGC much easier than most other receptacle/plug configurations as well as "hard wired" equipment.
 
I believe the EGC is the first line of defense because it doesn't need electronics that could potentially fail. GFCI's are a backup stop gap measure for compromised EGC's. My opinion, of course.
 
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