22 feeds 8-12 circuits in junction grounds tied

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Fred B

Fred B

Senior Member
Location
Upstate, NY
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Electrician
Found this when I was finally able to get underneath a mess of wires in a 12x15x6 inch metal junction. The single 12awg wire is how they all were bonded back to main panel buss.There are also a few feeds that are Crimp fitted and then tied to this bundle. Think they ran out of room under the split. Is this a violation? I was thinking it would be better adding a ground buss bar and bond back with an 8awg. Any thoughts.

Grounding junction
PSX_20201222_175636.jpg
The j box before I started.
PSX_20201222_182941.jpg
I'm basically pulling all apart as the original (assuming unskilled person) that ran these when splitting the NM cut almost every conductor, some cut the entire 12 inch length of the conductor. This box connects between the main panel and a relay switch panel. Also found mixed neutral connections that don't connect like circuit neutrals to like circuits. Finding sliced conductors in main panel as well. Could the slices simply have opened over time and may not have been visible when it was first installed? Or failing (opening up) from heating due to the original insulation damage?
This is an old installation, not sure of last modification but original installation was early 1970s late 1960s so no AFCI. I'm changing a couple of circuits and rewire so will need AFCI on those. Not sure of impact on AFCI functioning with use of the GE RR7 relays, as all switching is done by relay switching and contactors.
Breaker panel is an old Westinghouse 40 space full with multiple double taps and a couple of tandem breakers. I think the Eaton BR is an acceptable new breaker for the now obsolete Westinghouse panel. Eaton makes a short body AFCI breaker that will help out given the crowded panel .
 
What is your largest ocp? If it is 20 amp, then it’s fine. Messy, but fine. (The ground)
And yeah, a ground bar would have been much better. Still wouldn’t need larger than a #12 back to the panel if the ocp’s are 20 amp or less.
 
Normally split bolts are rated for 2 conductors unless identified for more. That took some skill to get all that mess in a box.😳
 
As mentioned, the split bolt is not rated for so many separate conductor.

A ground bus bar would be a good solution.

The conductor back to the panel need only be sized for the largest OCPD being served. Eg. 12 AWG might be sufficient.

-Jon
 
The split bolt at least adds a little mechanical assurance, seen cases like this where all that was done was twist them together and nothing else to secure them. Usually not for 22 separate conductors though.

And yes as long as none the overcurrent devices were more than 20 amps a single 12 AWG as the "common to the panel" is sufficient
 
As far as I know there are no split bolts listed for more than 3 conductors, however using them for more than 3 is a fairly common practice.

A grounding bar would be a better choice and as long as the EGC that runs back to the source it sized for the largest OCPD that protects a conductor in the box, a single EGC is permitted by the code.

The other issue here will be ampacity adjustment if all of the conductors are in a single home run. With 30 amp a below circuits using THHN, you are good up to 9 current carrying conductors without having to increase the conductor size. If you have 10 current carrying conductors, the maximum OCPD for 12AWG would be 15 amps.
 
Update: installed a bus bar and ran single ground back into panel. Largest conductor is 12awg. I have a peice of 10awg thhn green, is there a problem using the larger wire?
As I was organizing the lines in the jbox, came across multiple conductors with this type of damage pictured below. Some have cuts that are nearly 18 inches long extending from jbox into breaker panel (Not just neutrals either). The jbox is connected to breaker panel via a 2inch emt nipple. These wires are the old NM 60oC type. There are similar damage to other conductors in breaker panel not associated with the work doing right now. Now if I replace these damaged wires between the jbox and breaker panel will that initiate an AFCI requirement?

PSX_20201223_173542.jpg
I question the condition of the wire terminations throughout the house after seeing these. What sort of liability not doing a complete rewire is being incurred? How can I limit it? Have informed the homeowner of the problem and recommendations to rewire they are not wanting to do it right now, they are planning a complete renovation next year.
 
LarryFine said:
Shrink one length, then overlap it with the next one.
Click to expand...
I have clear shrink that came in 100 foot package, probably got from Grainger, though there may be lesser cost places to get it.

I like clear for this king of thing, then you can let whatever color is inside still be your identification color and not have to stock black, red, white....
 
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