220.18 maximum load

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kwired said:
General lighting load includes everything except for fixed appliances.

You still must have a minimum of 2 SABC's, a laundry circuit (unless not required like multifamily with other laundry facilities), and a 20 amp bathroom circuit. But there is no additional load calculation for the bathroom it just needs to be on the 20 amp circuit, you could put 1000 receptacles on it plus lighting and are code compliant. The bathroom load is included in the general lighting @ 3VA/SF. You could also run 10 circuits to the bathroom and the load calculation is still 3 VA/SF.
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I disagree in regards to what I was saying because 220.14(J) includes recepts from 210.52(E) and (G) not (D) which is the bathroom receptacles. BRANCH load calculations still have to be accounted for on the bath recepts, and if the feeder calcs don't have to be, then that is just another pointer as to the incongruity of this, as Charlie calls it circular references.
 
Strat,

While I can applaud your tenacity, this thread seems to stuck in a mobius strip.

I am not even real clear on exactly what your contention/point of view is at this point.

You do not have to agree with me, other members, or MH. Heck, I do not agree with MH on the issue of power cords.

But I will offer a small bit of advice:

Make one definitive statement and explain why you feel that way. It really helps to have other sources to back up your opinion.

I am speaking from experience. I took a stance in this thread regarding internal clamps of plastic boxes and box fill.

The question was: Do the internal clamps in a plastic box count towards box fill?

Me: "Yes".
Everyone else: "No"

I got statements from UL, Carlon, IAEI, and a ROP backing up my assertion. After that, some agreed and some did not, but at least I had a solid basis for my opinion.

I do not think I have seen a lot or any support for your position so far. Charlie's "circular" statement really just said sections could be better written. Fair enough, but he has stated in many other threads that the number of receptacles on a resi circuit is a design issue, not a NEC mandate like other occuppancies.

I am not trying to dissuade you to drop the issue, but rather define and defend your position on a single issue. We seem to be bouncing around a few different areas and it gets muddled.

Free free to tell me to go jump in a lake, I don't mind.:)
 
No offense Jumper and my statement is this, either the codes sections are poorly written, or the interpretation of many is wrong. It is pretty easy to generally assume that #1 is the correct answer. And as I read through the responses this becomes more likely. But, care should be taken to realize that regardless of the lighting installed, there is no requirement to comply with 220.18 either, as it is stated in 220.14(J) that no other calculations are needed. If lighting calculations are needed, then by extension, receptacle calculations would need to be as well. This is contrary to some assertions here. I find it ironic (and irritating) though, that the code council bows under to arc fault lobbyists, and put things in the code that have questionable safety benefit, but are OK with the assumption that people won't be stupid in their electricity usage in a house.

Lastly, I would just like to say, I am glad I work commercial. :cool:
 
iwire said:
There is a third option, the third option is you are simply mistaken and refuse to see it.

I am going with option 3.
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Is telling you to go jump in a lake an option?:D

But seriously, there is a bit of a muddle looking at how to apply these sections, it seems clear to me but I can see the "circular" reasoning charlie b pointed out.
 
FWIW New Mexico has its own rule that limits the number of convenience recpts you can have on a circuit. If there were already a rule in the NEC they would not need the amendment. Furthermore, what you end up with is a ton of home runs, half of 'em with two amps worth of load when the owners are settled in.
 
Strathead said:
I disagree in regards to what I was saying because 220.14(J) includes recepts from 210.52(E) and (G) not (D) which is the bathroom receptacles. BRANCH load calculations still have to be accounted for on the bath recepts, and if the feeder calcs don't have to be, then that is just another pointer as to the incongruity of this, as Charlie calls it circular references.
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It is kind of confusing, but the 3VA/SF covers most of the 120 volt load in a typical dwelling when it comes to service or feeder calculations.

About the only other 120 volt load you need to add is any fixed appliances, 1500VA for each SABC and 1500 VA for the required laundry circuit.

Outside of that you can have 1000 receptacles scattered around the house but you do not need to count each one as 180VA, or you would need 750 amps of supply just to feed them.
Picture in post 35 could get you to 1000 receptacles pretty fast, even in a fairly small home:cool:

I think at some point someone figured 3VA/SF is more then enough for most typical dwellings no matter how many receptacles may be installed.

Now individual branch circuit calculations may give you heavier load on one circuit then on another depending on what it feeds and how it is expected to be used.
 
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