225 amp service

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electrofelon

electrofelon

Senior Member
Location
Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
Anyone done one with a regular "200 amp" socket? It appears some/many are rated "200 amps continuous, 240 amp maximum". I never noticed this until recently as I have a house with a bunch of electric heat and I don't want to go up to the expense of a 320 socket, and 200 is borderline. The way I see it, there is no requirement that a meter socket be protected at it's rating, so in fact I could go with any size service disconnect as long as the socket rating meets the load calc.
 
J

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
I don't. I base the size of the meterbase off of the size of the OCPD. If it's a 225a OCPD then its a 320a Meterbase for me. JAP>
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
electrofelon said:
Anyone done one with a regular "200 amp" socket? It appears some/many are rated "200 amps continuous, 240 amp maximum". I never noticed this until recently as I have a house with a bunch of electric heat and I don't want to go up to the expense of a 320 socket, and 200 is borderline. The way I see it, there is no requirement that a meter socket be protected at it's rating, so in fact I could go with any size service disconnect as long as the socket rating meets the load calc.
Click to expand...
Can't recall ever installing a 225 amp service, but I agree with you that there is no requirement to protect it at it's rating, in fact you could have six mains that add up to over 200 amps, probably still good idea to have load calculation of 200 or less though.

If you have borderline load calculation and opt for smallest thing that will work you have no room for future additions is something to consider and main reason I probably still would go with 325 socket and likely two 200 amp panels.
 
H

Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
-
Occupation
Engineer/Technician
Here is something from Schneider electric that may help.

“Typically a 200A Individual Meter Socket is rated 200A CONTINUOUS and is suitable for use with 80% Rated Main Breaker Load Centers Rated 250A maximum. Square D does not make a standard 80% Rated 250A Main Breaker Load Center, but does offer 80% Rated 225A Main Breaker Load Centers having a total connected load restricted to 180A that is less than 200A continuous rating listed above.
Other common Individual Meter Socket frame sizes include:
100A continuous = 125A Max Main Breaker Load Center that is rated for a total connected load of 80% [125A x 0.80 = 100A].
200A continuous = 250A Max Main Breaker Load Center that is rated for a total connected load of 80% [250A x 0.80 = 200A].
320A continuous = 400A Max Main Breaker Load Center that is rated for a total connected load of 80% [400A x 0.80 = 320A].
400A continuous = 500A Max Main Breaker Load Center that is rated for a total connected load of 80% [500A x 0.80 = 400A].”
 
electrofelon

electrofelon

Senior Member
Location
Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
jap said:
I don't. I base the size of the meterbase off of the size of the OCPD. If it's a 225a OCPD then its a 320a Meterbase for me. JAP>
Click to expand...

Note there are two points of discussion here.

1. Using a meter base's non-continuous rating, which many don't notice is higher than the continuous.

2. Having an OCPD higher than even the meter bases non continuous rating.

Do you subscribe to 1 but not 2 or neither?
 
J

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
electrofelon said:
Note there are two points of discussion here.

1. Using a meter base's non-continuous rating, which many don't notice is higher than the continuous.

2. Having an OCPD higher than even the meter bases non continuous rating.

Do you subscribe to 1 but not 2 or neither?
Click to expand...

I don't think about it that much.

If I didn't have a single main OCPD, I'd have no choice but to rely on my calculated load to size the meterbase.
If that load was under the specifications of the meterbase rating, I'd be fine with it and go on.

If it does have a single main OCPD then:

If I have an "Up to" 200a Main OCPD I use a 200 amp meterbase.
If I have more than a 200 amp Main OCPD "Up to" 320, I use a 320 amp meterbase.
If I have more than a 320a Main OCPD up to 400 amp I use a 320 amp meterbase because it's allowed in my area.
If I have a 600 amp OCPD with a load of 320 or less I sometimes use a 320 amp self contained meterbase for one power company (because that's what the power company requires around here because their CT's are inaccurate at minimum loads I was told)
If I have a larger than 600 amp service it's most always CT's instead of self contained.

But that's just me.

JAP>
 
electrofelon

electrofelon

Senior Member
Location
Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
jap said:
I don't think about it that much.

If I didn't have a single main OCPD, I'd have no choice but to rely on my calculated load to size the meterbase.
If that load was under the specifications of the meterbase rating, I'd be fine with it and go on.

If it does have a single main OCPD then:

If I have an "Up to" 200a Main OCPD I use a 200 amp meterbase.
If I have more than a 200 amp Main OCPD "Up to" 320, I use a 320 amp meterbase.
If I have more than a 320a Main OCPD up to 400 amp I use a 320 amp meterbase because it's allowed in my area.
If I have a 600 amp OCPD with a load of 320 or less I sometimes use a 320 amp self contained meterbase for one power company (because that's what the power company requires around here because their CT's are inaccurate at minimum loads I was told)
If I have a larger than 600 amp service it's most always CT's instead of self contained.

But that's just me.

JAP>
Click to expand...

Your logic is not very consistent:p
 
J

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
That's correct.

Reason being is because one of the choices is one I would be responsible for and the other would be one that the power company would be responsible for.

JAP>
 
J

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
Point being, if you're worried about the use yourself, the difference in cost between a 200 amp meter base and a 320 would be well worth the extra expense to ease your mind in the long run.

JAP>
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Before you go thru this check out the difference in price for 2-200 amp panel and a 320 amp base vs 1- 225 amp panel.. If it is that close then go to 400 amp.....
 
electrofelon

electrofelon

Senior Member
Location
Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
Dennis Alwon said:
Before you go thru this check out the difference in price for 2-200 amp panel and a 320 amp base vs 1- 225 amp panel.. If it is that close then go to 400 amp.....
Click to expand...

Yeah its a lot more for the 2-200. A 225 is basically the same cost as the 200, other than larger wire which I would be going with larger for VD anyway as this is about 300 feet. Just the class 320 socket alone is $350 more by the time you add lugs.
 
C

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
electrofelon said:
Anyone done one with a regular "200 amp" socket? It appears some/many are rated "200 amps continuous, 240 amp maximum". I never noticed this until recently as I have a house with a bunch of electric heat and I don't want to go up to the expense of a 320 socket, and 200 is borderline. The way I see it, there is no requirement that a meter socket be protected at it's rating, so in fact I could go with any size service disconnect as long as the socket rating meets the load calc.
Click to expand...

A 200A panel is borderline?

How much running load, real world, would you estimate you'll actually have on the service?

If I felt comfortable it would be well under 200A continuous, I might use a 225A panel with a 200A meterbase, possibly, maybe. I'd sure lean towards a 320 though, just because I like cushion ...but sometimes customer budgets are tighter than what my preferences want to use.

On a sidenote, I used the free excel load calc on this site for a 100 amp service change we did a couple weeks ago. The existing panel just didn't have enough space. The inspector saw a couple of circuits were added also and thought we needed a 200A service, so he asked for a load calc.

I ran it through the excel calculator and came up with 137 amps. Which made us all poop our pants since we just installed a replacement 100 amp service!!

We called the power co. and asked for peak demand over the last 12 mos. instead. 62 amps. (Huge sigh of relief!!! And a passed inspection!!)
 
electrofelon

electrofelon

Senior Member
Location
Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
Cow said:
A 200A panel is borderline?

How much running load, real world, would you estimate you'll actually have on the service?

If I felt comfortable it would be well under 200A continuous, I might use a 225A panel with a 200A meterbase, possibly, maybe. I'd sure lean towards a 320 though, just because I like cushion ...but sometimes customer budgets are tighter than what my preferences want to use.

On a sidenote, I used the free excel load calc on this site for a 100 amp service change we did a couple weeks ago. The existing panel just didn't have enough space. The inspector saw a couple of circuits were added also and thought we needed a 200A service, so he asked for a load calc.

I ran it through the excel calculator and came up with 137 amps. Which made us all poop our pants since we just installed a replacement 100 amp service!!

We called the power co. and asked for peak demand over the last 12 mos. instead. 62 amps. (Huge sigh of relief!!! And a passed inspection!!)
Click to expand...

Its a basic small/medium all electric house plus 18KW of electric heat. I put it real world as never getting above 140A. Really 200 would be fine, but 225 makes it closer to or maybe nec compliant (things are lax here, not in a million years will I be asked for a calc). Utility will be supplying 25KVA transformer. I just hate "400 amp" services on dwellings. Totally un-necessary.
 
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