230.71

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A/A Fuel GTX

A/A Fuel GTX

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WI & AZ
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Electrician
I'm working up a bid for a multifamily dwelling, 8 condo's to be exact. All under one roof and obviously I'll need 8 meters. I'll be using meter packs with OCPD's below each meter. I know 230.71 says that the maximum number of disconnects per enclosure is 6. I was planning on going with two enclosures with 4 meters each and have the POCO individually feed each service. I just spoke with the POCO and was told that they would allow me to use an 8 position enclosure connected to one service lateral. This project is in an area without an electrical inspector so there is no AHJ. My question is can the POCO overide the NEC in a situation like this?
 
I don't know if the utility is the AHJ or not. You should adhere the NEC
which requires a max of 6 disconnects. If anything happens I doubt the utility will not back you.
 
I may be a simpleton when it comes to metering issues (common trait for EEs :D ), but can't you just install one fused service disconnect, and feed as many separate meters and disconnects from there as you like? Isn't the 6-disconnect rule a limit on the number of disconnects you can have, if you don't have overcurrent protection at the beginning of it all?
 
Charlie:

IMO: Some utilities don't like to have a disconnect/fuses in front of the meter. It makes it too easy for someone to steal power.

With no way to shut off the power, it usually takes at least a 6-pack before most people are brave enough to try to tap onto hot wires :D
 
charlie b said:
I may be a simpleton when it comes to metering issues (common trait for EEs :D ), but can't you just install one fused service disconnect, and feed as many separate meters and disconnects from there as you like? Isn't the 6-disconnect rule a limit on the number of disconnects you can have, if you don't have overcurrent protection at the beginning of it all?
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Yes Charlie, I've seen it done that way but in my case, I'd need an 800A switch and that would really jack up the price of the job.
 
Tom:

I don't see a reason why you can not have 8 meters connected to one service lateral. We do it all the time in commercial applications. Until the conductors leave the meter, they are service conductors.

I agree though, that most utilities require meter packs with a main ahead.
 
charlie b said:
can't you just install one fused service disconnect,
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You know those little symbols you EEs place on the drawings are not free. :lol:

I was on the same page as Tom, a large service disconect is expensive. 8)

Tom that aside IMO you need a disconnect ahead of the meter pack to comply with the NEC.
 
bdarnell said:
I don't see a reason why you can not have 8 meters connected to one service lateral. We do it all the time in commercial applications. Until the conductors leave the meter, they are service conductors.

.
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But Brad, what about the six disconnect rule from 230.71. The meter pack I'm looking at has OCPD's with each meter all in a single enclosure.
 
Wouldn't 230.40 Exception 2 allow me to put two, four position meter packs right next to each other and have the POCO feed them separately? I just spoke with an inspector in another jurisdiction and he was adamant about either putting a main disconnect in or limiting the meter pack to six positions. Then I look in the 2005 Handbook on page 136 and see two services on one building which is what I wanted to do in the first place. I'm confused.......
 
Tom I am confused, you want to install eight service disconnects grouped in one location using an exception that starts Where two to six....?
 
The way I read it is two to six disconnects per enclosure. The last sentence of Exception 2 says " several such equipment enclosures " which I interpret as maybe 2, four position meter packs side by side.
 
m73214 said:
The way I read it is two to six disconnects per enclosure. The last sentence of Exception 2 says " several such equipment enclosures " which I interpret as maybe 2, four position meter packs side by side.
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Think of it this way, I need to be able to kill the building power with 6 throws of the hand. So I could have 6 6-pack meters in one location with a main disconnect on each, because I could kill the power completely with 6 throws of the hand.

Does that help?
 
m73214 said:
The way I read it is two to six disconnects per enclosure. The last sentence of Exception 2 says " several such equipment enclosures " which I interpret as maybe 2, four position meter packs side by side.
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I can not agree with that.

What I believe that means that you may have two to six service disconnects in one or more enclosures.

As example up to six separate fused disconnects or one enclosure with up to six service disconnects, or any combination that does not exceed six.

Looking at it your way there is no limit whatsoever to the number of service disconnects that you may have.

Now do I really think six is safe and eight is not?

No, but they felt the need to pick a number.

JMO, Bob
 
The hanbook exhibit 230.8 clearly says "installed at separate locations", which acknoledges that you can not put the enclosures "side by side". this is also for a single building with more than one occupancy. Based on you description I think you have one building (you have not mentioned firewalls) with only one type of occupancy (i.e. all meters at the same voltage) per 230.2.
 
Get rid of the outside disconnects and you can have unlimited meters and the service entrance conductors from each meter can each serve six disconnects installed in remote locations.
Don
 
Service Sets

Service Sets

You could have have 8 or 16 meters or even more without Main, six or otherwise "if you run all service entrance conductors to each occupancy on the outside of the building and then provide main [2to six] at entrance to "each"occupancy

Theres your trouble. With individual mains at the each meter you can run each service entrance thru the structure inside the building but you would still need a main at each occupancy anyway

WATCH OUT FOR THE FIRE CHIEF!

Make sure he understands and agrees.

A building/multi occupancy does not need a main [2to6] on the meters, outside.

It needs a main at each occupany.

How you get there is two fold, inside the building or outside?
 
Peter,
How would you comply with 230.72 (A) then?
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Look at look at 230.71(A). If there are no mains outside, then the only the 6 disconnects for each occupancy have to be grouped.
Don
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Look at look at 230.71(A). If there are no mains outside, then the only the 6 disconnects for each occupancy have to be grouped.
Don
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I see. So as long as the panelboard contains less than 6 throws of the hand, we are OK? :?:

It seems that for anything but the smallest apartment, this wouldn't be applicable to much. :?
 
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