240volt lighting ckt (single pole switch)

Status
Not open for further replies.

drcampbell

Senior Member
Location
The Motor City, Michigan USA
Occupation
Registered Professional Engineer
So they act differently when used on lighting? ...
Switches don't behave any differently, but it's reasonable to assure that an ordinary person -- without any knowledge of electricity or LOTO procedures -- can replace a burned-out lightbulb without risking life & limb. Mandatory, I would suggest.
 

rnatalie

Senior Member
Location
Catawba, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
Switches don't behave any differently, but it's reasonable to assure that an ordinary person -- without any knowledge of electricity or LOTO procedures -- can replace a burned-out lightbulb without risking life & limb. Mandatory, I would suggest.
You turn off switches to replace lamps?
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
So they act differently when used on lighting?

There are LOTO accessories that will work with them. Three way and four way sets maybe not a great idea to lock out, unless maybe you confirm the load is not energized and LOTO every switch in the circuit.


You make a good point about the LOTOs... but do you really want to go that route?
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
You make a good point about the LOTOs... but do you really want to go that route?
In a workplace with strict LOTO policies that probably is happening, typically larger places of employment have higher chance of this being the way it works. Homeowners, smaller businesses - many don't even know what LOTO is.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
In a workplace with strict LOTO policies that probably is happening, typically larger places of employment have higher chance of this being the way it works. Homeowners, smaller businesses - many don't even know what LOTO is.

Right, but I doing through a wall switch is silly IMO.
 

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
I dont think there is anything in the code that requires a screw shell to be connected to the lead with the lowest voltage to ground is there?
Say were on a 3 phase 240 delta, one lead has 208 to ground and the other 120. Or a corner grounded delta...
The standard 400W MH iron core 'ballast' does not care what the voltage to ground is.
Wiring_X1_big.png
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
I dont think there is anything in the code that requires a screw shell to be connected to the lead with the lowest voltage to ground is there?
Say were on a 3 phase 240 delta, one lead has 208 to ground and the other 120. Or a corner grounded delta...
The standard 400W MH iron core 'ballast' does not care what the voltage to ground is.
View attachment 2555148


My understanding is that the CEC requires CWI ballasts, and the secondary lead on the socket to grounded.


1611977016027.png
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I dont think there is anything in the code that requires a screw shell to be connected to the lead with the lowest voltage to ground is there?
Say were on a 3 phase 240 delta, one lead has 208 to ground and the other 120. Or a corner grounded delta...
The standard 400W MH iron core 'ballast' does not care what the voltage to ground is.
View attachment 2555148
Lowest voltage no, but if a conductor to the lampholder is also a grounded conductor then that is the one that is supposed to be connected to the shell - 410.50.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
I don't see the point of grounding anything - especially if the ballast is located in the luminaire. This is listing issue and shouldn't be code issue anyway.


If you have a fault on the secondary the screw shell would become live.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
Lowest voltage no, but if a conductor to the lampholder is also a grounded conductor then that is the one that is supposed to be connected to the shell - 410.50.


Key word is if. Code legally allows for a live screw shell.

Personally I'd like to see modern screw shell sockets vanish. They are far to dangerous.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
If you have a fault on the secondary the screw shell would become live.
Fault to what? Isolated secondary would have no reference to anything, fault either conductor to the grounded luminaire housing then that conductor becomes grounded, though I guess if you ground faulted the conductor connected to the center pin then you would have whatever operating voltage to ground is from the shell to "ground". Outside of that there is only potential between the shell and center pin. On autotransformer type the shell is supposed to be the "common" and also connect to grounded circuit conductor when one is used. If no grounded conductor then there is voltage to ground on the shell, if grounded conductor is used, there is at least any voltage drop of the circuit present between shell and ground though is probably not much voltage most the time.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
Fault to what? Isolated secondary would have no reference to anything, fault either conductor to the grounded luminaire housing then that conductor becomes grounded, though I guess if you ground faulted the conductor connected to the center pin then you would have whatever operating voltage to ground is from the shell to "ground". Outside of that there is only potential between the shell and center pin. On autotransformer type the shell is supposed to be the "common" and also connect to grounded circuit conductor when one is used. If no grounded conductor then there is voltage to ground on the shell, if grounded conductor is used, there is at least any voltage drop of the circuit present between shell and ground though is probably not much voltage most the time.



Fault to the case of the fixture. The other leg (to the center pin) becomes grounded while the screw shell ends up at the opposite OCV potential relative to the pole and center pin. I'm thinking of a CWI or Mag-Reg ballast.
 

Frank DuVal

Senior Member
Location
Fredericksburg, VA 21 Hours from Winged Horses wi
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Engineer
Personally I'd like to see modern screw shell sockets vanish. They are far to dangerous.

Modern???? Edison invented them! That's why it is called Edison Base.

Or are you just referring to poorly made Edison base sockets in modern fixtures?

There are also Mogul-Base lamps, but again, not modern at all. They were common in the 1920s.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top