250.104(A)(2)

[ryan_618]

Add the bolded text, in the last line of the above referenced section.

The bonding jumper shall be sized in accordance with table 250.122 based on the overcurrent proection device for the feeder or branch circuit conductor(s) supplying the occupancy.

Substantiation: It would be nice to know how to size this bonding jumper.

 

[bphgravity]

Re: 250.104(A)(2)

This would be a good change and would certianly add clarity to the section. Good one!

(By the way, I neglected to ask how your trip to Florida was?)

 

[pierre]

Re: 250.104(A)(2)

Ryan is making a big step in his career to become one of the best in our industry, I know this as we have had discussions about this.

...So I am going to say that his proposed change is a redundant change, as Table 250.122 is based on the overcurrent protective device size already. Adding wording to an already wordy document should not be necessary. I understand his intent on helping others more easily read the NEC, but this table is one of the easiest in the NEC to understand and use.
Sorry Ryan - not picking on you, I think you know that though.

 

[charlie]

Re: 250.104(A)(2)

Ryan, if this is submitted, I suspect that Panel 5 will give you the response that Pierre just gave you.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: 250.104(A)(2)

I disagree. Refering the user to the table does nothing to tell me how to size the EGC. Which OCPD do I base it on? The service? The feeder? The branch circuit likely to energize the piping? Here is the response I got from one of panel 5's members:

Ryan,



It should be sized using Table 250.122 based on the rating of the overcurrent device protecting the feeder. I hope this helps. Submit the proposal.



Take care,



Mike



Michael J. Johnston

Director of Education, Codes and Standards
International Assoc. of Electrical Inspectors
901 Waterfall Way Suite 602
Richardson, TX 75080-7702

BTW: Thanks Pierre for your kind words. What a true friend you are.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: 250.104(A)(2)

Bryan, the trip to Florida was great. I really enjoyed all four days of the seminar. I also had a chance to finally meet Pierre, which was an unexpected treat. Pierre knew all along that he was going to attend, but he decided not to let me know until he called me from the hotel!

I did a five minute presentation on series rated systems that went really well, and I won the "top gun presenter" award for it.

I will be in Florida again in October to attend the Mike Holt Enterprises employee summer beach party. I guess in Florida summer goes until about...December? January? Then its winter for 2 days and back to summer!

 

[George Stolz]

Re: 250.104(A)(2)

Originally posted by pierre:
...So I am going to say that his proposed change is a redundant change, as Table 250.122 is based on the overcurrent protective device size already.

That's not the key to this proposal, and Ryan should beef his substantiation to clarify that point.

The key is, the occupancy's rating, not the service rating, is the rating to apply 250.122 to.

It could prove to be a profound difference, if it is a large service supplying many smaller occupancies.

I am going to hide in Ryan's luggage. I'll bet he'll have a layover in Denver at some point.

 

[pierre]

Re: 250.104(A)(2)

I will bet that by that time he will need a lot of layovers and much luggage .

Still, the table is based on the overcurrent device that supplies the feeder or branch circuit that it protects, so the additional wording seems to be redundant.

Ryan
I am not saying not to send the proposal, just adding my 2 cents - if I am proven wrong, who better to have proven me wrong .

 

[ryan_618]

Re: 250.104(A)(2)

George, I think the Utes play CSU in Fort Collins this year. Its only about an 8 or 9 hour drive. I'll have to let you know if I make it out there this year.

I think I am going to make the proposal. I just don't see anywhere in this section that tells me how to apply the table.

(2) Buildings of Multiple Occupancy. In buildings of multiple occupancy where the metal water piping system(s) installed in or attached to a building or structure for the individual occupancies is metallically isolated from all other occupancies by use of nonmetallic water piping, the metal water piping system(s) for each occupancy shall be permitted to be bonded to the equipment grounding terminal of the panelboard or switchboard enclosure (other than service equipment) supplying that occupancy. The bonding jumper shall be sized in accordance with Table 250.122.