250.64B

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Paul B

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What determines "exposed to physical damage"? I failed a service inspection today. I ground wire comes through the wall about 18 inches from the dirt and is flat to the wall and secured. I failed because it was not in a conduit to protect it. This is the first time I failed for this.

Paul
 
Re: 250.64B

Originally posted by Paul B:
What determines "exposed to physical damage"?
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The AHJ determines what being exposed to physical damage is. I've had some inspectors say that common gardening applications could subject the GEC to physical damage regardless if the GEC is secured to the structure or not. This is a term that should be defined in the definitions to help narrow the interpretation to realistic applications. If you think about it, anything could be subject to physical damage. I've generally had good luck with routing the GEC out under a deck area as opposed to an exposed surface.
 
Re: 250.64B

Originally posted by Paul B:
What determines "exposed to physical damage"? I failed a service inspection today. I ground wire comes through the wall about 18 inches from the dirt and is flat to the wall and secured. I failed because it was not in a conduit to protect it. This is the first time I failed for this.

Paul
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Sound fine to me. We always install them this way. If the conductor follows the surface of the building construction and is securely fastened to it, then it complies with 250.64(B). You will have to ask the inspector how he determined that this is subject to physical damage.

[ January 26, 2006, 05:11 AM: Message edited by: infinity ]
 
Re: 250.64B

Unfortunately the inspector beat me to the job. I going to call him this morning and find out.
 
Re: 250.64B

In general, exposed to physical damage would be a location that can be readily contacted. Extreme physical damage would be a location that can be easily contacted by vehicular movement or machinery. This can't be universally applied for all installations and all conditions but is a decent rule of thumb. In my opinion anyway.
 
Re: 250.64B

Thanks for the replies guys. Inspector said it should be in conduit for protection. It is a number 4 solid bare copper flat against the wall, I don't get it. The inspector did ask why the electrician up or down the road were not hired for the job verses me from a different county. I think he is looking out for buddies. Anyway I put it in pipe and he coming back in the morning.
 
Re: 250.64B

"The inspector did ask why the electrician up or down the road were not hired for the job verses me from a different county."

That is not why the inspector is going to the job. As long as the permit and licensing are in order, you are permitted to be there.
 
Re: 250.64B

Originally posted by pierre:
"The inspector did ask why the electrician up or down the road were not hired for the job verses me from a different county."

That is not why the inspector is going to the job. As long as the permit and licensing are in order, you are permitted to be there.
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Yes and as long as you have the proper permit, his local buddies are not "permitted" to be there. :D :D
 
Re: 250.64B

Before calling this "The Good Ole Boy System" or maybe "Nepotism" it would be better to learn more of the facts. The profile for Paul B states that he is a general contractor. He could also be a licensed electrician ( I have been both general and electrical contractor on the same job ) but failed to let the inspector know this. Some general contractors in my area will get the homeowner to pull an electrical permit and then do work under this permit. When I did general contracting on small jobs I found that it worked out better if you let the inspector know that you are also a licensed electrician. I have found that if an inspector is suspicious and thinks that you are trying to bend a few rules that they are much harder to deal with. If I'm in a different area and don't know the inspector I try to be there for the first inspection, introduce myself and let him/her know that I'm a legitimate contractor. There are counties here that can be hard to deal with if you don't know a few of the local rules. One county will not even inspect a job unless the permit is nailed to mail box post and the mail box had better have all the numbers visible but they will leave a message at the mail box. I can't say that they are try to discourage competition because once you do things their ways then everything seems to work out all right.
 
Re: 250.64B

Originally posted by growler:
Some general contractors in my area will get the homeowner to pull an electrical permit and then do work under this permit.
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I've had GCs suggest the same to me. However, when the county issues the permit it is stamped in bold red text that any electrical or plumbing work that is contracted out must be done by a licensed and bonded contractor.

[ January 27, 2006, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: Mike03a3 ]
 
Re: 250.64B

now that it is "in Pipe"; I must ask ... did you use a "ground bushing" inside the panel ?? I remember something about "choke effect" ... m :cool:
 
Re: 250.64B

Mario, Yes Choke coil effect If using a metallic conduit must be bonded at both ends and Growler "Good ol boy network" Where I come from It is common to say that and sometimes not a bad thing! It was just an observation "Outside lookin'in" so to speak don't know the whole scenario.
 
Re: 250.64B

The ground was ran in non metalic. It was passed today. No the home owner did not pull the permit, that is not allowed in this county. Believe me it is "the good ole boy system".
 
Re: 250.64B

Also note a change in the 2005 NEC from previous in 250.64B. It used to be OK to just run a #4 or larger down the side of a building unless exposed to SEVERE physical damage. In 2005, the word severe was removed so now you have to protect all GEC's from damage.

I think many electricians used to upside the GEC to #4 whether that size was needed or not so they didn't have to use a conduit sleeve. Now people may end up with code minimum GEC's because the protection measures must be installed. Seems like a step backwards...
 
Re: 250.64B

I would like to add to this if I may.
The conductor being used outside is direct burial rated, correct? I had inspector point this out to me years ago and then It had to start being buried 24" deep before leaving the wall to the rod clamping devices and so forth.

[ January 28, 2006, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: throttlebody ]
 
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