26 Kw generator

J

jwoody

Member
Location
Orange County, CA
Occupation
Building Inspector
Would a prime mover shutdown, attached to the exterior of the generator cover, comply with the requirements of 2020 NEC 445.18(C) "Remote emergency shutdown"? While it is located "outside the generator cover", I would assume that is not remote.
 
I understand this is not standardized, especially since it is a (somewhat) new code requirement. However, I feel it cannot become standardized without discussions, which in return may develop standards. I also understand it’s not a very exciting question, but it is a code requirement, which has the potential to develop different interpretations. I’m only seeking opinions of interpretation.
 
Generators have been required to have an exterior shut off switch for I don’t even know how long. They are also required to have one that is lockable in the off position. Hence the one under the (lockable) cover, and one on the exterior of the generator.

445.18(C) is new to California this code cycle, and most inspectors and plan checkers have understood it to require a remote stop if the generator is installed in an “enclosure”, ie, in a block building, equipment room, or even an open top fenced enclosure, as that could potentially be locked.

I did have one plan checker who apparently didn’t understand it and wanted me to submit documentation that the brand new Generac installed in a yard complied. 🙄😡
 
jwoody said:
I understand this is not standardized, especially since it is a (somewhat) new code requirement. However, I feel it cannot become standardized without discussions, which in return may develop standards. I also understand it’s not a very exciting question, but it is a code requirement, which has the potential to develop different interpretations. I’m only seeking opinions of interpretation.
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kwired said:
JMO, but seems a gas valve is pretty reliable at keeping the generator from running. :unsure:
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The idea that we assume on most plans now is "lockable disconnect [emergency shutdown meets this requirement in code], within x feet of utility main, requires manual reset after operation"

However, some have gotten by with the idea that the gas valve will shut it down, and it will require a manual reset since it sets a fault when this happens, and the generator case is lockable.

What we always do now is to run a low voltage loop from the generator e-stop circuit, to a Kohler red mushroom switch, which has a lockable guard/hasp thingy on it.

Meets the requirement for "disconnect" within x feet of main, plus prime mover shutdown, and anything else they can think of, and is using all the circuits and components as intended.
 
Birken Vogt said:
The idea that we assume on most plans now is "lockable disconnect [emergency shutdown meets this requirement in code], within x feet of utility main, requires manual reset after operation"

However, some have gotten by with the idea that the gas valve will shut it down, and it will require a manual reset since it sets a fault when this happens, and the generator case is lockable.

What we always do now is to run a low voltage loop from the generator e-stop circuit, to a Kohler red mushroom switch, which has a lockable guard/hasp thingy on it.

Meets the requirement for "disconnect" within x feet of main, plus prime mover shutdown, and anything else they can think of, and is using all the circuits and components as intended.
Click to expand...
I guess part of the idea here is should emergency responders want to shut down power to the facility, they want some sort of standby power shut off to be in vicinity of utility shut off. My previous comment on gas valve were more of a LOTO type of thinking, and also would depend on what task you are locking out for.
 
kwired said:
I guess part of the idea here is should emergency responders want to shut down power to the facility, they want some sort of standby power shut off to be in vicinity of utility shut off. My previous comment on gas valve were more of a LOTO type of thinking, and also would depend on what task you are locking out for.
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Well I used to be a fireman and I did not care about generators at the time. We all had at least one brain between us and could make anything stop running without the aid of a mushroom switch. Firemen have this superhuman ability to break anything

I would not necessarily trust a red mushroom switch installed by a random ceiling fan hanger turned generator installer in this day and age, I have seen way too many installed in the wrong way.

A gas valve would not be much of a LOTO because when we are elbows deep in a generator what we are trying to prevent is the starter engaging and taking off fingers, etc.
 
Birken Vogt said:
The idea that we assume on most plans now is "lockable disconnect [emergency shutdown meets this requirement in code], within x feet of utility main, requires manual reset after operation"

However, some have gotten by with the idea that the gas valve will shut it down, and it will require a manual reset since it sets a fault when this happens, and the generator case is lockable.

What we always do now is to run a low voltage loop from the generator e-stop circuit, to a Kohler red mushroom switch, which has a lockable guard/hasp thingy on it.

Meets the requirement for "disconnect" within x feet of main, plus prime mover shutdown, and anything else they can think of, and is using all the circuits and components as intended.
Click to expand...


Who is requiring it within a certain distance of the main? Is that a local thing?

The kill switch inside the unit, with a lockable lid, satisfies the requirement for the unit to be locked in the off position, and require manual reset.
 
Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:
Who is requiring it within a certain distance of the main? Is that a local thing?

The kill switch inside the unit, with a lockable lid, satisfies the requirement for the unit to be locked in the off position, and require manual reset.
Click to expand...

They are not requiring a kill switch within distance of the main. They are requiring a power disconnect.

Yes it may be local.

However, per a clause in the code, the kill switch meets the requirement for a disconnect. So it kills all the birds with one stone.
 
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