3 CCC In Conduit

Status
Not open for further replies.
A

Alwayslearningelec

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Occupation
Estimator
Always see this note in spec. Contractor shall not install more than 3 CCC in a conduit.
What a waste of $.
So the neutral should, most of the time, be counted a a current carrying conductor? That would mean not more than one circuit???
Or 3 circuits if neutral not counted as current carrying.
 
Reality is for smaller branch circuit sizes you pretty much never need to increase conductor sizes until you get more than 9 CCC's, unless you also need to make an adjustment for ambient temperature.
 
kwired said:
Reality is for smaller branch circuit sizes you pretty much never need to increase conductor sizes until you get more than 9 CCC's, unless you also need to make an adjustment for ambient temperature.
Click to expand...
Understand the derating but was question the spec reading only 3 CCC in a conduit. That extremely limiting.
 
horsegoer said:
Always see this note in spec. Contractor shall not install more than 3 CCC in a conduit.
What a waste of $.
So the neutral should, most of the time, be counted a a current carrying conductor? That would mean not more than one circuit???
Or 3 circuits if neutral not counted as current carrying.
Click to expand...
Who comes up with this stuff?? The vast majority of times the neutral does not count as a current carrying conductor. The common exception would be two phases and the neutral of a three-phase system
 
electrofelon said:
Who comes up with this stuff?? The vast majority of times the neutral does not count as a current carrying conductor. The common exception would be two phases and the neutral of a three-phase system
Click to expand...
Exactly so I’d assume if you really adhere to that note then 3 circuits in a conduit
 
horsegoer said:
Understand the derating but was question the spec reading only 3 CCC in a conduit. That extremely limiting.
Click to expand...
I can only assume they don't want to do the adjustments? Though like I said kind of automatic with 15-30 amp circuits that you won't need to increase conductor size until you exceed 9 CCC's.

Maybe they figure that leaves room to add conductors if needed someday?

They certainly can specify (and usually do) designs that are more restrictive than code minimum requirements. Commercial designs, nothing is smaller than 12 AWG quite often, control wiring being an exception. I use 14 AWG on my own design builds for lighting quite often, or even dedicated receptacle loads that don't draw much.
 
Well, the engineer (even though his spec is nonsense) seems to be wanting two wire circuits and in reality there is no neutral.
 
kwired said:
I can only assume they don't want to do the adjustments? Though like I said kind of automatic with 15-30 amp circuits that you won't need to increase conductor size until you exceed 9 CCC's.
Click to expand...
It's not about derating, they simply do not want more than three CCC's in any raceway. This is a somewhat common spec on large projects.
 
roger said:
It's not about derating, they simply do not want more than three CCC's in any raceway. This is a somewhat common spec on large projects.
Click to expand...
What be the reason other than ampacity adjustments will be necessary if more than three though?

I'm not an engineer, maybe they think differently and have a good reason to specify this way?
 
kwired said:
What be the reason other than ampacity adjustments will be necessary if more than three though?

I'm not an engineer, maybe they think differently and have a good reason to specify this way?
Click to expand...
A designer doesn't need a reason and many times don't know why they designed a certain way. Like using the magical grounding triad, I have asked a few what they think it does and you'd be amazed and amused at some of the answers.
 
roger said:
A designer doesn't need a reason and many times don't know why they designed a certain way. Like using the magical grounding triad, I have asked a few what they think it does and you'd be amazed and amused at some of the answers.
Click to expand...
I know what you are saying, just hoping to maybe get some clue where/why this spec ever started. Is pretty common.

Also often seen boiler plate specs that include information on things that shouldn't even apply to a particular install, I consider that to an extent to just be laziness.
 
kwired said:
Also often seen boiler plate specs that include information on things that shouldn't even apply to a particular install, I consider that to an extent to just be laziness.
Click to expand...
Yep, I had a set of specs on a job in FL once that called for all underground raceways to be below the frost line, we layed the conduit on the ground and brushed some dirt over it. ;)
 
I think that often these boilerplate specifications are thrown in because engineers don't trust electricians to perform a simple derating calculation which ends up costing the customer a lot more money for absolutely nothing. Or they simply don't get the whole nothing changes until you get to 10 CCC's with small conductors.

We see these same spec's on prints and more often than not the foreman just ignores it.
 
infinity said:
I think that often these boilerplate specifications are thrown in because engineers don't trust electricians to perform a simple derating calculation which ends up costing the customer a lot more money for absolutely nothing. Or they simply don't get the whole nothing changes until you get to 10 CCC's with small conductors.

We see these same spec's on prints and more often than not the foreman just ignores it.
Click to expand...
Does the inspector ever check? I'd like not to bid that why. On very large job could be the difference between winning and losing a job.
 
I had to laugh when I saw this, specs don't have to make sense and I have seen some brain teasers. I believe many of the odd ones are because someone got chewed out over something so they put it in a spec. Specs can be from the customer if they are big enough to have their own. Also most of the firms we dealt with used a spec subscription service so they would just cut and paste what they want on a project. No thinking involved.
Jeff
 
horsegoer said:
Does the inspector ever check? I'd like not to bid that why. On very large job could be the difference between winning and losing a job.
Click to expand...
From what I have read on this site, some places they do inspect to plans as well as to code. Other places (like where I am) plans don't really mean anything to the EI's. They are only enforcing code, if you don't install to plans it is between you the designer and/or the owner.

Some places have a plans check which is nothing more than approving the design, the install still needs to happen.
 
horsegoer said:
Does the inspector ever check? I'd like not to bid that why. On very large job could be the difference between winning and losing a job.
Click to expand...
We install per the code so the derating if required is done as per the NEC. The city inspectors don't care about a specification.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top