Yes. Exactly what i mentioned to the supervisor that i met today and he still claims that all breakers have to simultaneously trip. So the solution he gave me was to place a sub panel next to the water heater and which will still have 3 double pole breakers that wont simultaneously trip with a main at the panel. But again these guys are not the brightest. He looked up the code in front of me and said this is a multiwire system which is not, there is no grounded conductor and i showed him the definition of multiwire and he looked surprised. But yet there enforcing the code.
3 Element water heater
- Thread starter ufeonline
- Start date
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Im sure thats what hes after but with proper signs stating disconnect 1 of 3, 2 of 3 and 3 of 3 should do.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
I know that you have to pick your battles but you're dealing with someone who sad to say has a reading disability. I would seek out whomever his boss is and complain. The proposed solution is no better than the code complaint installation that you've proposed and it still does not accomplish what he thinks is required by the NEC. He's wrong plain and simple.
Yup. Thank you. I have reached out to his supervisor but no reply yet. I will keep everyone posted.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
I would never, ever do this kind of non-required work to satisfy an incorrect inspector.
It sets a bad precedent that is likely to be repeated in the future, and cost you money.
It's better that you force the inspector to educate himself for the benefit of everyone.
Everyone has a boss or supervisor for a reason; don't hesitate to climb the food chain.
It sets a bad precedent that is likely to be repeated in the future, and cost you money.
It's better that you force the inspector to educate himself for the benefit of everyone.
Everyone has a boss or supervisor for a reason; don't hesitate to climb the food chain.
Agree, that's exactly what I'm doing.
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
Absolutely not. There is no reason or need to comply with the inspector's request, not legally or morally. And the inspector on sight is not the AHJ, he is a representative of the AHJ and should be doing a better job. I could make an argument that the inspector is the one who should be threatened legally because he is asking for an installation that is outside of a very clear code requirement.
No, there is no difference between a main breaker turning off a subpanel than having 3 breakers at the main panel with lock out cages and still having the extra precaution of removing the non fusible disconnects handle for each elements next to the water heater with the proper signage. Any licensed professional that will be servicing the unit should know how to read power disconnect 1 of 3, 2 of 3 and 3of 3 other than having to flip 3 breakers on the sub panel or investigating were the main breaker for the sub panel is located. The way that I have it set up has 2 safety steps as precautions as well. Thats why im arguing with them because what there requiring has no difference in the way that I have it done. Just a different way to achieve the same goal.
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
There are three disconnects at the water heater. Any competent person working on the heater would know to turn off the disconnects. Someone getting injured wouldn't even enter my mind! And how would a sub panel solve this? They would still have to turn the breakers off at the sub panel.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
How so? The proposed installation is code compliant without the nonsense proposed this inspector. Aren't contractors supposed to follow the written code words that are adopted by the jurisdiction?
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
I my opinion, it is just as illegal to fail a compliant installation as it is to pass a non-compliant installation.
texie
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Collins, Colorado
- Occupation
- Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
This is yet another example of an inspector that is wildly lacking in experience and training. This should not go unchallenged. Sadly in many jurisdictions his boss maybe just as misinformed. I would not roll over for this. My experience tells me that these are often the same people that approve things that are flaming and dangerous NEC violations due to their lack of training. This is a growing problem in the trades.
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James L
Senior Member
- Location
- Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
- Occupation
- Electrician
I'm curious if they try to have this same subpanel requirement for a 15- or 20kw furnace, which would have 2 circuits and 2 heating elements?
Maybe ask how they address that
Understood , in my experience when there is a discussion or disagreement about the code with AHJ, they may concede but not without having some sort of shift of liability, such as having the EOR says it’s ok in a letter (even though the drawings don’t change and it was designed in line with contractors interpretation ) just not a great situation, I think if something happens with the water heater now, even if it’s not related to the issue, that email chain or letter about what the AHJ flagged and the back and forth will be tough to deal with, regardless of whose right and wrong.
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
Nothing to deal with! The OP already has a disconnecting means for each element. Changing the disconnects to a sub panel would change nothing as far as killing power to the elements. You obviously have never worked in the field, or at least enough, to understand that the install is correct and to code.
My comment had nothing to do with “killing power” rather when it’s better to do what the AHJ says or fight the battle, which is often discussed on here. The point being that if something were to happen, the paper trail would come out that the AHJ tried to flag the installation and it was rebutted, regardless if install was correct and per code or if what the AHJ wanted changed anything. I apologize for my ignorance and lack of experience.
Good question. Im going to ask. I installed one not to long ago and passed inspection with no problem. Technically its the same thing just 1 double pole breaker less.
samandmatt
Member
Educated guess - Miami Gardens?
Miami Dade
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