3 gang surface switch box...

[LarryFine]

There is another option: use three X-10 transmitters in this box. They'd only require a single 14-2 supply, so the 1.5"-deep boxes would be more than deep enough.

Three devices = 6 conductors
One 14/2 = 3 conductors
Total = 9 @ 2 cu.in. = 18 cu.in. box

With the 22.5 cu.in. volume of the 1.5"-deep gangables I first mentioned, you could add as many as two additional conductors if necessary.

 

[LarryFine]

From the picture he posted, I think the room is drywalled, so he will have to work with the cables already there.

Yes, but a junction box can be located behind the microwave, and short cables run to the box cut into the cabinet side.

Added Since you mentioed it, I looked at the pic again: there's only a 2-gang box now.

 

[1793]

From the picture he posted, I think the room is drywalled, so he will have to work with the cables already there.

This is at an outside door to the back of the house. The existing two gang box services the back door outdoor light and a ceiling fixture.

I will be adding another switch at this location for some recess lighting in the kitchen.

The feed will be at this new 3 gang box. I have to have a hot at the back door for the outdoor light. The two 3 ways will have the loop to the lights from the second location so I need a neutral at that location.

I'm running two 14/3's between the 3 ways so I can carry the neutral for the circuit at the other end.

I may not be explaining this very well but I'm trying.

If I feed at the other end I need a hot and neutral at the back door for the outdoor light. I could reduce one cable in the back door by pull two 14/3's from the feed to the back door and use one conductor from each 14/3 for the hot and neutral. I don't like that set up.

 

[1793]

... If I feed at the other end I need a hot and neutral at the back door for the outdoor light. I could reduce one cable in the back door by pull two 14/3's from the feed to the back door and use one conductor from each 14/3 for the hot and neutral. I don't like that set up.

Another thought, if I feed at the back door and pull one 14/3 and one 14/2 to the second location I could use one of the conductors of the 14/3 for the neutral, code compliant?

 

[1793]

Conductor count....

Conductor count....

...The correct count:

The six conductors = 6
The EGC's = 1
Total = 13 @ 2" per = 26

I know it is the middle of the week and it has been a long one, but I still get a different conductor count.

I have:
Feed 14/2 w/ground = 3
Outdoor loop 14/2 = 2
3 way (14/3) = 3
3 way (14/3) = 3

This is a total of 11 conductors counting the neutrals (4 - one per cable)
Is this not correct?

 

[LarryFine]

I know it is the middle of the week and it has been a long one, but I still get a different conductor count.

I have:
Feed 14/2 w/ground = 3
Outdoor loop 14/2 = 2
3 way (14/3) = 3
3 way (14/3) = 3

This is a total of 11 conductors counting the neutrals (4 - one per cable)
Is this not correct?

It is if you do it that way. I'm aiming for minimal conductor count in the 3-gang box. If you make the existing box a junction box with a blank cover with a KO, and run a 1/2" flex to the new box, you'll only need the six conductors I mentioned above.

 

[Bob Kraemer]

Providing you don't go over on box fill, why can't you use a piggy back switch (combo s/p & 3-way) and a standard 3-way switch in a 2 gang box.
Most people don't like piggy back switches and neither do I, but if solves your problems why not.

 

[1793]

It is if you do it that way. I'm aiming for minimal conductor count in the 3-gang box. If you make the existing box a junction box with a blank cover with a KO, and run a 1/2" flex to the new box, you'll only need the six conductors I mentioned above.

I can see it now. I will not be able to use the existing box as a junction.

Good Idea though, I'll keep it in mind for my next job.

Thanks

 

[LarryFine]

I will not be able to use the existing box as a junction.

Unless the microwave takes up the entire opening, you can still mount an accessible J-box inside the cavity, even above the microwave, and only bring the necessary line conductors into the 3-gang box, and no neutrals.

 

[LarryFine]

I just had a thought. (Uh-oh!) In a case like this, where the box would be accessible from inside the cabinet, is it permissible to attach an EGC on the outside?

250.120(C) and 250.148 don't seem to specifically dis-allow it.

 

[tallguy]

Unless the microwave takes up the entire opening, you can still mount an accessible J-box inside the cavity, even above the microwave, and only bring the necessary line conductors into the 3-gang box, and no neutrals.

Another thought... since we're getting into a discussion of the least objectionable solution rather than an ideal solution:

1) Go to a 4-gang box to get additional space:
View attachment 851

It ain't ideal, but might be more palatable than having an accessible j-box in the microwave cavity.

2) Even though you are planning to come into the back of the box, you can still use the WireMold as an extension ring. I agree that WireMold would look lousy if you were flush mounting it (see cat#'s from post #2), but as an extension they look not bad IMO since you don't have the raceway. Obviously, you've got to keep it shallow so someone doesn't clip it with their shoulder as they walk in from the outside...

See V5751-3 here -- only 15/16" deep, well inside the 4" trim width. A single V5751 is stamped with 11.9 cu. in -- so you'd gain ~36 in3, and not have to worry about box fill at all.

I would do #2 personally...

 

[1793]

...See V5751-3 here -- only 15/16" deep, well inside the 4" trim width. A single V5751 is stamped with 11.9 cu. in -- so you'd gain ~36 in3, and not have to worry about box fill at all.

I would do #2 personally...

If I use three 1-1/2" cut in boxes ganged would I not have a problem with the extension not sitting flush with the fade of the cabinet?

The design of this cabinet is to bring the side of the cabinet all of the way to the counter top. I have been told that the width of the side will be 3/8" with a return of 1-7/8" so I have 1-1/2 to hide the box or wire(s)

I wish I was as good as others with drawing programs so I could show what I am dealing with.

 

[tallguy]

If I use three 1-1/2" cut in boxes ganged would I not have a problem with the extension not sitting flush with the fade of the cabinet?

The design of this cabinet is to bring the side of the cabinet all of the way to the counter top. I have been told that the width of the side will be 3/8" with a return of 1-7/8" so I have 1-1/2 to hide the box or wire(s)

I wish I was as good as others with drawing programs so I could show what I am dealing with.

I assume "fade" should be "face" of the cabinet? I'm not seeing a problem, but perhaps I'm overlooking something...

The wood is 3/8" thick, and you have a 1-7/8" return (or lip) on the face that will hide (somewhat) the gangable boxes. If the return/lip is butted against the side so that the seam between the two only shows from the side, which is what we would expect, you have 1-7/8" of thickness to play with, not 1-1/2". You're going to have to route out that 3/8" thick wood (or have the cabinet guy do it) one way or the other.

How are you going to secure the boxes to the cabinet? As long as the boxes are flush with the surface, the WireMold will sit flush as well.

 

[1793]

I don't know but...

I don't know but...

Here is a quick sketch to help explain my set-up.

 

[tallguy]

Ok... matches what I had envisioned, more or less. What are you concerned about, and how are you planning to secure the 3-gang to the wood?

 

[1793]

Ok... matches what I had envisioned, more or less. What are you concerned about, and how are you planning to secure the 3-gang to the wood?

My very first thought was to just surface mount the 3 gang WireMold. Then someone mentioned if I could cut in shallow boxes. Then it was mentioned to use the cut in boxes with the Wiremold for the added box fill requirements.

My first thought would be to use "Holder Hangers" or box supports. I really don't want to start routing the side of the cabinet support.

 

[darren_92530]

larry

larry

hey larry its me darren the electrician, ricky's freind. PM me for my email address.

Moderators note: email address removed from post, please use PM feature to exchange this information.

 

[tallguy]

My very first thought was to just surface mount the 3 gang WireMold. Then someone mentioned if I could cut in shallow boxes. Then it was mentioned to use the cut in boxes with the Wiremold for the added box fill requirements.

I would still do #3 (combo), or perhaps #1 (wiremold alone). Issue with #1 is that you are going to be trading off between having a cozy box fill vs. having the WM stick out so far that people are going to get hurt as they bumble into the edge/corner as they walk in the door.

My first thought would be to use "Holder Hangers" or box supports.

aka "Madison bars". That's my only thought. There must be a better way though...

I really don't want to start routing the side of the cabinet support.

Then you are stuck with #1. Otherwise, you are cutting a big hole. Either way, you are going to have to cut somewhat... You gotta get the conductors from point A to point B.