3 hots, 1 neutral

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iwirehouses

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Ok, first of all I have a reputation for coming up with some crazy ideas but this one seems perfectly legitamite to me and is probaly a trick that electricians have been doing for quite some time. Maybe you guys can verify that it is legal and will work? My question: Can a 2 wire romex bring two hot legs and no neutral to a junction box where it can share a neutral from a different piece of romex? My application: I'm going to energize two lighting switches. I am going to come off each of those two switches with a seperate conductor in 12/2 romex making white and black both hot and no neutral what so ever. I run that 12/2 to a junction box that has a neutral in it. From there I split it in to 12/3 with two hot legs and a neutral and run to two lights, thus controlling two lights from two switches. Sounds legit to me. It would be 3 hots sharing 1 neutral. Is that legal? I know, the right thing to do is just run 12/3 straight to the lights, which I will probaly do anyways. The reason I am doing this is because the knockout I want to go in has 12/2 already in it. I can double stack 12/2 but not 12/3 and I beleive this is a perfectly legitimate way without sacrificing anything. Plus I just want to know if my idea is realistic for future reference.
 
Re: 3 hots, 1 neutral

Besides the issue of possibly overloading the neutral. 300.3(B) all but prevents you doing what you propose.


Done wrong it could lead to heating of metallic boxes at best you will be creating EMF fields that can interfere with TVs and PC monitors.

That said IF you follow all the rules in 300.3(B)(3) it could be done and meet code.

But seroiusly...don't do it, there is something to be said for doing things the 'normal' way.

For one thing it is much easer to troubleshoot the circuit when done normal.
 
Re: 3 hots, 1 neutral

The wording may be wrong in 300.3 (B) so this may be technically legal, but IMHO the intention is that the conductors still need to be run together along a parallel path.

I do not see where you can just pick up a neutral from where ever one happens to be handy.

If this is not technically illegal, then I will be force to break out the "cheezy" word.
Whew, maybe I wont get slammed for using it this time. :D
 
Re: 3 hots, 1 neutral

Originally posted by jbwhite:
If this is not technically illegal, then I will be force to break out the "cheezy" word.
Whew, maybe I wont get slammed for using it this time. :D
Click to expand...
JB 300.3(B)(3) lays out just what you have to do if you wanted to run circuit conductors different routes. (AKA knob and tube style)

It can be legal and I will join you this time in saying cheesy. :D
 
Re: 3 hots, 1 neutral

I once worked for a company and one of the employees spit tabacco stuff on a hospital floor. The owner called a meeting and said "not everything can be covered in the employee handbook, sometimes we just have to use our common sence.

That same idea needs to be applied here.
 
Re: 3 hots, 1 neutral

There have been things posted in the past in regards to 2 wire travellers EMF etc.I have done it time and time again over the years but I always use the neutral from the same circuit.To find a neutral is yes cheezy but legal.
I do this when I need a hot/neutral and a set of travellers from point to point.If there was 4 wire nm this wouldn`t be a discussion.
 
Re: 3 hots, 1 neutral

what exactly is on this neutral now that you plan on borrowing ?If its got a load i dont see any way you can be using it unless this is 3 phase
 
Re: 3 hots, 1 neutral

Originally posted by allenwayne:
If there was 4 wire nm this wouldn`t be a discussion.
Click to expand...
Ah Allen are you telling us a company that builds 2000 or 3000 homes a year can not get a hold of 14/4 or 12/4 NM?

We can get it here in MA any time. And I do mean 14/4 not 14/2-14/2.
 
Re: 3 hots, 1 neutral

Originally posted by iwirehouses:
Ok, first of all I have a reputation for coming up with some crazy ideas

I know, the right thing to do is just run 12/3 straight to the lights,
Click to expand...
Do the right thing...and save your sanity.
 
Re: 3 hots, 1 neutral

CHEESY I wish i would have thought of that word because it really does apply here

romeo
 
Re: 3 hots, 1 neutral

It wouldn't be the end of the world as long as the neutral tapped onto was from the same circuit as the switch legs.

I have used two lengths of 14-2 as hot, neutral, and travelers, but I always run them together, as if they were a 14-4.

I also always run them so the printing on the sheaths are opposite to one another, so there's little chance of mixing them up.

I also color one of the whites, so I end up with one white, two blacks, and a red or blue. We use ink, not tape.
 
Re: 3 hots, 1 neutral

Originally posted by iwire:
Originally posted by allenwayne:
If there was 4 wire nm this wouldn`t be a discussion.
Click to expand...
Ah Allen are you telling us a company that builds 2000 or 3000 homes a year can not get a hold of 14/4 or 12/4 NM?

We can get it here in MA any time. And I do mean 14/4 not 14/2-14/2.
Click to expand...
As I have posted before, we do not use anything smaller than a #12 here except for control. But down to the local supply houses they gots lots a 12-2-2 (a.k.a. 12/4) made by Southwire and Texas Wire. It has a Black, Red, White, White/Red trace, and bare. We use it all the time for travelers and HVL's
 
Re: 3 hots, 1 neutral

Originally posted by iwire:
Originally posted by allenwayne:
If there was 4 wire nm this wouldn`t be a discussion.
Click to expand...
Ah Allen are you telling us a company that builds 2000 or 3000 homes a year can not get a hold of 14/4 or 12/4 NM?

We can get it here in MA any time. And I do mean 14/4 not 14/2-14/2.
Click to expand...
Obviously you don`t know our purchasing agent (one of the owners and 4 wire nm is only available since the advent of afci circuits.I did state that I have done this for years and that probably covers 20 of them ;)
 
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