3 way neutral at switch question.

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ritelec

ritelec

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Jersey
Hello.
New home.
2nd floor bed room. Open attic above (Insulated).

Owner wants a 3 way between door entry and bed to operate light on fan/light.
Single pole to fan.

because of the shared neutral to the fan/light I'm thinking I need a four wire between the three ways for the same neutral being shared to the light /fan (and to have a neutral at the door 3 way switch)

THAT IS UNLESS I am able to use the exception of being in the same room and the switches are visible to each other.

You can stand at the 3 gang box and see the entry switch, but from the entry switch you can't see the bed switch (the 2' jog from the chimney obstructs view)

(1 ) Does this put the KABASH on that exception?


(2) If so, does the open attic allow me the other exception of future neutral to the entry switch ??
( even though I don't see how that would work well in the future as there would be a separate neutral from a different cable assembly)


(3) IF there was no open access above, would that 2' jog from the chimney which hinders the view of the switch be enough to have to carry a neutral to that entry switch?

thank you
 
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Wow, that's a good question. I don't know, never came across this before. Hopefully someone has. Good luck

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What's the problem with running 4 wires?

What exception? There's no exception, per se, but there are requirement reliefs 1 thru 7... and if you are referring to #5 multiple switch locations, the criteria is that from each switch location the entire floor area is visible. I would say the jut of the chimney may be disqualifying... but it is debatable, for the not-visible area is quite small.
 
Smart $ said:
What's the problem with running 4 wires?

What exception? There's no exception, per se, but there are requirement reliefs 1 thru 7... and if you are referring to #5 multiple switch locations, the criteria is that from each switch location the entire floor area is visible. I would say the jut of the chimney may be disqualifying... but it is debatable, for the not-visible area is quite small.
Click to expand...

I'd rather return the roll of four wire I picked up :- )

Thank you for the answer.

So I'm thinking that relief number 2 will work.
 
And also thinking with the 4 wire. Are the plastic boxes rated for wmentry with four wire cables ? I know it will work but the literature I see only says 2 wire and 3 wire.

The words 4 wire never appear ?
 
ritelec said:
And also thinking with the 4 wire. Are the plastic boxes rated for wmentry with four wire cables ? I know it will work but the literature I see only says 2 wire and 3 wire.

The words 4 wire never appear ?
Click to expand...
I'm not an nm cable jockey so someone else will have to entertain that notion... :angel:
 
At the rate this is going it might be cheaper to add 2 4" cans over the bed on a 3 way from the door to the bed.


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electricalist said:
At the rate this is going it might be cheaper to add 2 4" cans over the bed on a 3 way from the door to the bed.


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Click to expand...

Thank you.


Yes that fan/light common neutral.

( cheaper would be to just install the 4w. Wait! Now I might be ripping it out because the box isn't approved ?? )

Hmmmm. Level the chimney ?
 
Why are you making this hard and not try and install a remote system. Lowes has it for 30-40 dollars and install is easy. You can have the wall switch control both light and fan as well as the remote
 
ritelec said:
And also thinking with the 4 wire. Are the plastic boxes rated for wmentry with four wire cables ? I know it will work but the literature I see only says 2 wire and 3 wire.

The words 4 wire never appear ?
Click to expand...

Just wondering,is there a 4 wire rated dry nm rated connector, plastic box, metal box or staple. If it's out there I will look for it next time.
I have installed 14/4 nm many times in a plastic old and new work without any concerns of the nm sheathing being compromised.

The flat 10/3 nm that is whole nuther story.
 
electricalist said:
At the rate this is going it might be cheaper to add 2 4" cans over the bed on a 3 way from the door to the bed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I would run a 3 wire from the original switch to the added switch. Use black and red as the travelers and the white as a switch leg back (taped to identify of course) and connect it to the existing switch leg for the light. Done.
 
ritelec said:
Thank you.


Yes that fan/light common neutral.

( cheaper would be to just install the 4w. Wait! Now I might be ripping it out because the box isn't approved ?? )

Hmmmm. Level the chimney ?
Click to expand...

You are way over thinking this. There is no need to run a 14-2-2 and if there were the only restriction would be the box volume, the other info stamped in the box is just there for convenience.
 
If it was accessible to get the cable to the switch location in the first place, why won't it be accessible to get a cable containing a grounded conductor there if needed? Run the 3-wire cable.

Remote control? Unless they are a gadget junkie, they will hate you for that, remote is never anywhere to be found when wanted. Leave remote on the nightstand and come home late the next evening, you are stumbling in the dark to find the remote to turn on the lights, most are going to want something near the door that will always work.
 
kwired said:
If it was accessible to get the cable to the switch location in the first place, why won't it be accessible to get a cable containing a grounded conductor there if needed? Run the 3-wire cable.

Remote control? Unless they are a gadget junkie, they will hate you for that, remote is never anywhere to be found when wanted. Leave remote on the nightstand and come home late the next evening, you are stumbling in the dark to find the remote to turn on the lights, most are going to want something near the door that will always work.
Click to expand...

They won't hate you if you get the right remote. They make them that mounts to the wall just like any switch. You might even get a hug if done right!:happyyes:
 
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