3 wire outlet 4 wire dryer

[MAC702]

LG must have a solution.

Of course, and as usual, LG (and Samsung) don't care how expensive the solution is. You've already seen the smiling, happy woman in the commercial, and bought one so you can be just as happy with how shiny it is.

 

[LarryFine]

Yep, according to LG, the only acceptable (and compliant) solution is the 4-wire circuit. Offer the customer the option of paying for the work or returning the dryer for one that can be 3-wire wired.

 

[K8MHZ]

Yep, according to LG, the only acceptable (and compliant) solution is the 4-wire circuit. Offer the customer the option of paying for the work or returning the dryer for one that can be 3-wire wired.

But, there is this:

https://www.amazon.com/4-Prong-Rece...t=&hvlocphy=9017374&hvtargid=pla-813872542684

 

[MAC702]

Interesting. So it takes the bootleg ground and gets it out into the open instead of hiding it in the outlet box. Hmmmm...

For $70 each, I need to go through my scrap pile and make a few for eBay.

 

[ramsy]

The water line would only be a part of the Grounding Electrode System if it were the portion within 5 feet of were the piping enters the building.

(C) Nongrounding Receptacle Replacement or Branch Circuit Extensions. The equipment grounding conductor of a grounding-type receptacle or a branch-circuit extension shall be permitted to be connected to any of the following:
(1) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode system as described in 250.50.

I see, 250.50 to 252(A)(1) may consider 10ft of electrically-contiguous water pipe in contact with earth a suitable electrode, however, if contact with earth isn't readily apparent from the laundry area, why not use #12 EGC from laundry duplex, unless converting NEMA 10-30R to NEMA 14-30R with undersized EGC violates the device listing.

250.130(C)(4) does not disqualify EGC extensions from another branch circuit for conductor-size differences.

 

[tortuga]

I see, 250.50 to 252(A)(1) may consider 10ft of electrically-contiguous water pipe in contact with earth a suitable electrode, however, if contact with earth isn't readily apparent from the laundry area, why not use #12 EGC from laundry duplex, unless converting NEMA 10-30R to NEMA 14-30R with undersized EGC violates the device listing.

250.130(C)(4) does not disqualify EGC extensions from another branch circuit for conductor-size differences.

Thats an interesting interpretation of it.
I would think a wire type ECG would need to still meet 250.122.

My thought is large appliances are hardly using a neutral anymore and the american standard for large appliances like ranges, dryers and hot tubs should be a straight 200-240V. Many appliances these days (ductless heat pumps) have electronically controlled motors and work off anything from 200-240. Then all the 3 wire infrastructure thats out there can stay the same and you could just pull a 10/2 for a dryer. I have seen ranges start to go this way, you can tell when you go to wire up a cord and there is no internal wiring connected to the neutral block. The one drawback is finding those little GU base 240V replacement bulbs for the light.

 

[oldsparky52]

But, there is this:

https://www.amazon.com/4-Prong-Rece...t=&hvlocphy=9017374&hvtargid=pla-813872542684

I would be hesitant to "recommend" this to someone (I might point it out to them), but I would not have a problem using it myself.

 

[sparky1118]

Or also leave the factory 4 wire cord on the dryer, change the receptacle out to a 4 wire, and, jumper the grounded and EGC I take it?
The factory cord on the dryer s not your standard eyelet type connection. It is male to female quick connectors.

JAP>

Really?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jap]

Really?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Really.

And my point being is because the NEC's exception of allowing a 4 wire appliance to be allowed to still have the neutral and ground tied together in this day and age is just silly.
It doesn't solve the neutral return current being induced on normally not current carrying parts of an appliance at all.
This puts us no closer to resolving the neutral to ground connection being made after the service entrance for dryers and ranges no matter how you want to sugar coat it.

I think the LG connection is actually pretty smart on their part. They seem to have a better grasp on what it actually takes to enforce the rule.

To defend a neutral to ground connection made at an appliance even though it's not correct, but, disagreeing with jumping the neutral and ground at the receptacle which is also incorrect,for those same appliances, is simply hypocritical.

JAP>

 

[jap]

The manufacturer's instructions say to change out the receptacle to the correct 4 wire grounded type. That's the way it should be regardless of Manufacturer instructions.

JAP>

 

[oldsparky52]

To defend a neutral to ground connection made at an appliance even though it's not correct, but, disagreeing with jumping the neutral and ground at the receptacle which is also incorrect,for those same appliances, is simply hypocritical.

JAP>

Well, ... IDK.

I feel the neutral/ground combined in the machine is an understood practice and since it's still allowed must not really be too unsafe.

Wiring the receptacle with the neutral/ground combined misrepresents what is there. I'm pretty sure it's an NEC violation.

 

[jap]

Well, ... IDK.

I feel the neutral/ground combined in the machine is an understood practice and since it's still allowed must not really be too unsafe.

Wiring the receptacle with the neutral/ground combined misrepresents what is there. I'm pretty sure it's an NEC violation.

I agree it's an understood practice, but, as far as safety or misrepresentation, that's a catch 22 when it comes to this subject.

JAP>

 

[ramsy]

Thats an interesting interpretation of it.
I would think a wire type ECG would need to still meet 250.122

If AHJ was hearing arguments, I’d point out joining different sized EGC’s together in raceway boxes is a required wiring method. 250.130(C)(4) simply clarifies where EGC extensions to non-grounding branches are considered bonded. EGC size is irrelevant.

I’d also mention code structure thru-out NFPA-70 treats old work specifically. In last sentence of §250.130 Part VII , treatment of “existing installations” clarifies when EGC extensions are allowed between branches, and appears later in the code, consistent with not being bound to previous new-construction code, such as §250.122 in Part VI.

 

[ramsy]

My thought is large appliances are hardly using a neutral anymore.. ..I have seen ranges start to go this way, you can tell when you go to wire up a cord and there is no internal wiring connected to the neutral block. The one drawback is finding those little GU base 240V replacement bulbs for the light.

Roger that, no control xfmr keeps production costs down, and 240v Euro appliances are not designed to break right after warranty period.