300.11 (D) Violation?

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A/A Fuel GTX

A/A Fuel GTX

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Electrician
Does this installation violate 300.11 (D).
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Hv&Lv said:
But cables are supporting cables
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Yup and it's a judgement call as to whether or not that cable tie will hold the cable better than a Stacker. A Stacker on a flat cable like 12/2 or 14/2 NM cable is useless, you can pull the cable right out.
 
infinity said:
Yup and it's a judgement call as to whether or not that cable tie will hold the cable better than a Stacker. A Stacker on a flat cable like 12/2 or 14/2 NM cable is useless, you can pull the cable right out.
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Didn’t say it was more secure, just that IMO it isn’t allowed..
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Dennis Alwon said:
If you have a device in that box then you have a fill violation with 4- 12/2 cables
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I agree with you. But common sense tells me that in a 23 cubic inch box, 4, 12-2 NM B cables and a duplex receptacle easily fit with room to spare. Perhaps the NEC Gods should ease up the gospel a bit and let common sense factor in.
 
A/A Fuel GTX said:
I agree with you. But common sense tells me that in a 23 cubic inch box, 4, 12-2 NM B cables and a duplex receptacle easily fit with room to spare. Perhaps the NEC Gods should ease up the gospel a bit and let common sense factor in.
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I agree also, but allow me a moment please...
There has to be a line of demarcation between allowed(or legal) and disallowed(or not legal) what’s common sense to some may not be to others.
common sense to one person may say a 50 amp stove outlet will fit in that box...

The OP asked if it was a violation. I say yes, based on the article. Will it hurt anything? No, probably not..
Speed limit in some places is 65MPH. Will it hurt to go 67? No. Is it allowed? Again, it’s illegal.

Im not saying I’m perfect in anyway at all and that every single thing I do is legal..
I’m just merely answering the question..
 
A/A Fuel GTX said:
OK........So tell me, what's the difference between using stackers and the wire tie method? I don't believe there are any grave, negative effects from either method.
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The difference is one cable is not dependant on another cable in the stacker but in the OP picture the ty-wrap'd cable is dependant on the cable it's being tied to. I'm not saying there is anything unsafe with the ty-wrap, it's just a code violation as the code is written, but I would not have a problem with it.
 
I know that if the cable tie went under the staple everyone would feel warm and fuzzy. As I stated earlier it's a judgement call and I don't have a problem with it. A Stacker (which is code compliant) is such a poor choice for these flat cables that an inspector may have a problem with them being used. IMO they only provide support, the flat NM cable is not secured if it can be pulled right through them.
 
You could drive a staple into the stud vertically, and then thread a wire tie through it and around all of the cables.

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Or use CJs:

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I use the tie wrap instead of stackers. Never one word said, not even one!
The cables only need supporting while the drywall (or other covering) is being installed. After that, there is no need in securing them. If there was, we wouldn't be allowed to fish wire in to existing walls.

Now sometimes, I will drive a staple and run the tie wrap thought it, then around the cables. But If I have to add a cable to an already stapled cable, I don't take the staple out and re-do it, I just wrap a tie wrap around the existing NM.
 
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