300.14 and free conductor length

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tallgirl

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Location
Glendale, WI
Occupation
Controls Systems firmware engineer
So ... apparently (so I've been told ...) one of the local inspectors has decided that the 6" free conductor requirement is from the FRONT of a junction box, not the back, and not the 3" from the front of the box requirement . I'm not averse to this since I'm all about free conductors, bay-bee, but yesterday while I was making up grounds and neutrals I looked at the mass of wire that's left behind and started having Really Bad Thoughts about box fill. With the 3" deep boxes we're using that's about 9" of wire being crammed back into that box.

Thoughts?
 
I've never had a problem, but you have to be smart when you rough in also, if you know a gfi or a dimmer is going to be installed at that location, I try and keep the wire count as small as possible... or use a bigger box...
 
Ju;ie, it is from where emerges from the raceway or cable sheath.

300.14 Length of Free Conductors at Outlets, Junctions, and Switch Points
At least 150 mm (6 in.) of free conductor, measured from the point in the box where it emerges from its raceway or cable sheath, shall be left at each outlet, junction, and switch point for splices or the connection of luminaires (fixtures) or devices. Where the opening to an outlet, junction, or switch point is less than 200 mm (8 in.) in any dimension, each conductor shall be long enough to extend at least 75 mm (3 in.) outside the opening.
 
tallgirl said:
Thoughts?

I had seen an example that showed a multi-gang switch box that included 3-ways and 4-ways....using one method or another, they calculated there was 27' (feet, not a typo) of wire jammed into that box.

That example's location is long gone from the front of my grey matter...but I'm sure someone can prove it ;)
 
roger said:
Ju;ie, it is from where emerges from the raceway or cable sheath.

Yeah, I got that part, along with the rule for when a box has a short dimension less than 8 inches. These are (duh) primarily single and double gang boxes and the inspector has apparently decided that there must be 6" of free conductor measured from the front of the box.

It just hadn't occurred to me until yesterday that this might be a bad idea, even though I'd otherwise think the more the merrier.
 
tallgirl said:
Yeah, I got that part, along with the rule for when a box has a short dimension less than 8 inches. These are (duh) primarily single and double gang boxes and the inspector has apparently decided that there must be 6" of free conductor measured from the front of the box.

Well as long as you and your compadres sit silently and let this inspector make up his own rules you shouldn't be concerned as to it being a bad idea, just go with his all knowing superiority.

Sorry, couldn't help myself, seriously though, show him the article, he may say thanks.

Roger
 
celtic said:
Are you saying I'm old or just thirsty?

:grin:
:grin:
:D

I think he's saying you're Irish.

St. Patrick's Day is the only Christian holiday I celebrate, and given that Mom's side of the family were Irish Protestants, I'm really not sure why I do. Oh, that and requesting that a proper Irish wake be had when it's time for me to be planted. Probably means I'm more Irish than Jewish ...

ObNEC: Yeah, that's the idea -- have Del 'splain the code to the inspector when the rough inspection is called this week. Prolly also point said inspector at code for box fill while he's in the neighborhood.
 
tallgirl said:
ObNEC: Yeah, that's the idea -- have Del 'splain the code to the inspector when the rough inspection is called this week. Prolly also point said inspector at code for box fill while he's in the neighborhood.

Julie, if your going to cave in so be it.:roll:

I would most definitely bring it to his attention be it at the rough in inspection or when ever, but I guess that's just me.


Roger
 
I generally leave about 9-12" of each conductor and never have a problem fitting it into the box. I've seen some boxes where the guy couldn't get 6 #12's into a 1900 box and others where they neatly crammed in 16. Pretty much depends on how neatly you splice and fold them in.
 
roger said:
Julie, if your going to cave in so be it.:roll:

I would most definitely bring it to his attention be it at the rough in inspection or when ever, but I guess that's just me.

Oh, sorry -- Del's the guy who runs the show. I'm going to mention it to him and let him bring it up to the inspector.
 
Julie, I'd agree with that. Let the person in charge deal with the inspector, fight or flight is their decision. That doesn't mean we all can't root for Del. :D
 
georgestolz said:
Julie, I'd agree with that. Let the person in charge deal with the inspector, fight or flight is their decision. That doesn't mean we all can't root for Del. :D

This might be the wrong time to send him off to do battle with an inspector -- we had a house full of first and second year apprentices yesterday. Let's give him some time to regain his strength ;)

(I have some piccies from yesterday I should post, if I can ever get them out of my phone ...)
 
I think this whole subject is similar to the boxfill requirements and has at least as much to do with workmanship as the actual code requirement(s). Common sense should rule the day on this stuff. The inspectors around here don't roll the wires out of the boxes and get out the tape measure, they don't have time for such foolishness.
 
300.14

300.14

Why are the EC so afraid of the AHJ ??? If you Know your compliant to the NEC, show the AHJ his mistake. I know here in New England there are some AHJ's w/ everything except jack boots. You have to deal w/ them w/ kid gloves because of their big heads. AHJ myself I don't think I know everything, if I misinterpet the NEC I would hope the EC would correct me. This forum should be mandatory for every AHJ. This MHO. :grin: :D For what its worth.
 
lowryder88h said:
Why are the EC so afraid of the AHJ ??? If you Know your compliant to the NEC, show the AHJ his mistake.
Absolutely! I only lost one disagreement with an inspector, and that was the first time. That was when I learned about #2 al not being allowed on a 100a breakeer for other than service use, and how to really read the NEC.
 
Hi Julie,
Discussions pertaining to the ?length of free conductor? have been around for a number of years. Prior to 1999 edition, there was no mention of how to measure the 6 inches of free conductor. Proposals were submitted for; 1) starting the measurement at the point in the box where it emerges from its raceway or cable sheath, and 2) starting the measurement from the exterior edge of the box. While I couldn?t find the Report on Proposals (ROP) for the 1999 edition, I found similar wording submitted for the 2005 ROP . . . both were rejected. The 2005 ROP can be found on the NEC Digest website. http://www.nfpa.org/itemDetail.asp?...C%AE%20Resources/ROPs%20and%20ROCs/2005%20ROP

Report on Proposals ? May 2004 NFPA 70
3-74 Log #2287 NEC-P03
(300-14)
Recommendation:
Revise text as follows:
Where the opening to an outlet, junction, or switch point is less than 200 mm (8 in.) in any dimension, each conductor shall be long enough to extend at least (75 mm (3 in.)) (5 in.) outside the opening.
Substantiation:
Three inches of conductor to install a device is not enough. It allows almost no play or room for error. If the conductors need to be trimmed back in the future, there is not enough conductor to do it.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement:

A Task Group consisting of Panel 9 members (having jurisdiction over Article 314) and Panel 3 (having jurisdiction over Article 300) studied and reviewed the issues raised by proposals in both the 1996 and the 1999 Code process, and determined the present text in 300.14. Where boxes or plaster rings had openings that were smaller than 8 inches in any dimension, a 6 inch conductor may not have sufficient length to project more than a few inches outside the box or ring, depending upon where the conductors actually entered the box. It was decided that the conductors entering into the box must be at least 6 inches long measured from the point in the box where the conductor emerges from the raceway or cable sheath and then have at least 3 inches outside the opening. This would permit easy splicing of the conductors within the box or connection to most devices without unduly overfilling the box. Adding an additional 2 inches may overfill the enclosure. Adequate substantiation has not been provided for justifying this additional length.
Number Eligible to Vote: 12
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 12

3-75 Log #2336 NEC-P03
(300-14)
Final Action: Reject
Recommendation:
Revise text as follows:
Length of Free Conductors at Outlets, Junctions, and Switch Points. At least 150 mm (6 in.) of free conductor, measured from the exterior edge of box, shall be left at each outlet, junction, and switch point for splices or the connection of luminaires (fixtures) or devices. Where the opening to an outlet, junction, or switch point is less than 200 mm (8 in.) in any dimension, each conductor shall be long enough to extend at least 150 mm (6 in.) outside the opening.
Substantiation:
NEC 300.14 Length of Free Conductors at Outlets, Junctions, and Switch Points states: "At least 150 mm (6 in.) of free conductor, measured from the point in the box where it emerges from its raceway or cable sheath, shall be left at each outlet... "The problem with this code statement is that (6 in.) of free conductor should be measured from the exterior of the box instead of the "point in the box where it emerges from its raceway or cable sheath". This in turn, would change "at least 75 mm (3 in.) outside the opening" to at least 150 mm (6 in.) outside the opening. The primary reason for changing the article's point of measurement is in regards to safety. Measuring from the point in the box from the raceway or cable sheath actually shortens the total overall length of free conductor that extends beyond the box. The shortened length of conductor makes it difficult to work on a device safely when that device is serviced or exchanged. It is possible to damage the conductor on the edge or side of the box while trying to access the termination points on a device, such as a receptacle. The bare conductor and metal box could cause an overcurrent condition, resulting in a potential fire hazard. Another problem with the shortened conductor length is in regards to replacing a receptacle that can not be de-energized. Such a situation may occur in a hospital or industrial application. This could be a potential electrical shock hazard to the individual servicing the device.
Solution to the Problem: The safest solution to the problem would be to change the point at which the conductor length is measured from. The measurement for the (6 in.) free conductor length should be measured from the exterior (outer) edge of the box, rather than the raceway or cable sheath within the box. Measuring from the exterior edge would give a better working clearance away from the box, making it less likely to damage the conductor and would also make it easier to manipulate an energized device. A greater working clearance would then be safer without question.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement:

See the first paragraph in the Panel Statement in Proposal 3-74.
Adding an additional 6 inches will most likely overfill the enclosure. Adequate substantiation has not been provided for justifying this additional length.
Number Eligible to Vote: 12
Ballot Results Affirmative: 12


Sometimes by reading statements from panels, it is easier to understand the Code.
Charles
 
Charles,

Thanks for the text from the ROP. I'll be sure to pass that on to Del and have him in turn pass it on to the inspector.

Y'all seriously rock.
 
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