300 / 400 Amp single phase 240V service upgrade

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Rdel6937

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New Jersey
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Electrician
Afternoon all,

I have a customer looking to upgrade his 200A service to either 300A or 400A in Fairlawn NJ.
He is at approx. 80% utilization on his existing service and would like to add a second 200A panel as he will be adding 2 EV charging stations and wants room for growth.

PSEG already inspected the tri plex and it is good for 300A. a 400A upgrade would need to be reviewed and I believe there is a 300A meter pan, just not sure if it comes with a disconnect means.

Questions:
Is there a 300A or 400A Meter Pan with Disconnect means and dual load lugs where I can attach the existing 200A panel load and then run a new 100A or 200A service to a new panel in the garage? (eliminating the need for a trough and bugging in each panel.

What are the grounding and bonding requirements for this setup or if using a trough and bugging in the panels.

Any other ideas or thoughts how to deliver the additional capacity? there is no room for an additional panel near the meter pan and service entrance. It will need to extend the additional service and panel to the garage.
 
Rdel6937 said:
Afternoon all,

I have a customer looking to upgrade his 200A service to either 300A or 400A in Fairlawn NJ.
He is at approx. 80% utilization on his existing service and would like to add a second 200A panel as he will be adding 2 EV charging stations and wants room for growth.

PSEG already inspected the tri plex and it is good for 300A. a 400A upgrade would need to be reviewed and I believe there is a 300A meter pan, just not sure if it comes with a disconnect means.

Questions:
Is there a 300A or 400A Meter Pan with Disconnect means and dual load lugs where I can attach the existing 200A panel load and then run a new 100A or 200A service to a new panel in the garage? (eliminating the need for a trough and bugging in each panel.

What are the grounding and bonding requirements for this setup or if using a trough and bugging in the panels.

Any other ideas or thoughts how to deliver the additional capacity? there is no room for an additional panel near the meter pan and service entrance. It will need to extend the additional service and panel to the garage.
Click to expand...
Is the garage attached or detached? Do you need exterior disconnects there?
 
Here we use what is called a 320A meter socket enclosure. It comes with dual lugs on the load side for parallel conductors. you can either use a NEMA 3R wireway or PVC conduit bodies and nipples to the (2) 200A disconnects. You can parallel 2/0 CU. or 4/0 AL. to your disconnects. As far as grounding electrode conductor, if you are using just multiple rods, nothing larger than a #6 cu. is required. If your GES is a UFER ground and a ground rod, nothing larger than a #4 is required. Otherwise, Table 250.66 could be used by adding the CM of your paralleled conductors.
 
Rick 0920 said:
Here we use what is called a 320A meter socket enclosure. It comes with dual lugs on the load side for parallel conductors. you can either use a NEMA 3R wireway or PVC conduit bodies and nipples to the (2) 200A disconnects. You can parallel 2/0 CU. or 4/0 AL. to your disconnects. As far as grounding electrode conductor, if you are using just multiple rods, nothing larger than a #6 cu. is required. If your GES is a UFER ground and a ground rod, nothing larger than a #4 is required. Otherwise, Table 250.66 could be used by adding the CM of your paralleled conductors.
Click to expand...
thanks rick - I do not know if that is supported in NJ and or with the Utility company. I am working on reaching out to them for that info.
 
Rick 0920 said:
Here we use what is called a 320A meter socket enclosure. It comes with dual lugs on the load side for parallel conductors. you can either use a NEMA 3R wireway or PVC conduit bodies and nipples to the (2) 200A disconnects. You can parallel 2/0 CU. or 4/0 AL. to your disconnects.
Click to expand...
If using (2) disconnects, the 2 x 2/0 Cu or 2 x 4/0 Al would not be in parallel. 2/0 Cu has a 75C ampacity of 175A, so it could only be used if the disconnect is 175A or less, or if the disconnect is serving the entire load of one dwelling unit (310.12). In contrast, 4/0 Al has a 75C ampacity of 180A, so it can be protected at 200A whenever the calculated load is 180A or less.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
If using (2) disconnects, the 2 x 2/0 Cu or 2 x 4/0 Al would not be in parallel. 2/0 Cu has a 75C ampacity of 175A, so it could only be used if the disconnect is 175A or less, or if the disconnect is serving the entire load of one dwelling unit (310.12). In contrast, 4/0 Al has a 75C ampacity of 180A, so it can be protected at 200A whenever the calculated load is 180A or less.

Cheers, Wayne
Click to expand...
my understanding is the new code , at least in NJ, requires an external disconnect means for I guess the fire or utility company in front of the Main breaker for a service. The issue at hand is really space and design of the additional capacity beyond the current 200A service. If we deliver 300 amps, I can only add a second panel at I believe 100Amps. There is no room to locate this panel next to the existing 200A panel so it will extend into the attached garage. the issue is space, even outside, for a new 300A PSEG meter pan, if that discount is indeed required and if so, it would likely need to be added after the meter. A dual lug meter would be great, then feed two disconnects, reuse the existing cable for the existing 200A panel and add new cable for the garage panel. Or if a 300A meter exists with a built in disconnect and dual lug, that would be ideal. Then its just grounding requirements. In NJ, I beleive anything over 300A requires a CT Cab. Which would still require a disconnect and alot of space outside, that just isn't readily available.
 

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Rdel6937 said:
my understanding is the new code , at least in NJ, requires an external disconnect means for I guess the fire or utility company in front of the Main breaker for a service. The issue at hand is really space and design of the additional capacity beyond the current 200A service. If we deliver 300 amps, I can only add a second panel at I believe 100Amps. There is no room to locate this panel next to the existing 200A panel so it will extend into the attached garage. the issue is space, even outside, for a new 300A PSEG meter pan, if that discount is indeed required and if so, it would likely need to be added after the meter. A dual lug meter would be great, then feed two disconnects, reuse the existing cable for the existing 200A panel and add new cable for the garage panel. Or if a 300A meter exists with a built in disconnect and dual lug, that would be ideal. Then its just grounding requirements. In NJ, I beleive anything over 300A requires a CT Cab. Which would still require a disconnect and alot of space outside, that just isn't readily available.
Click to expand...
What you want is a class 320 aka 400A meter socket (they are 320 continuous snd 400 non-continuous. You could investigate availability of ones with two 200 amp disconnects built in
 
electrofelon said:
What you want is a class 320 aka 400A meter socket (they are 320 continuous snd 400 non-continuous. You could investigate availability of ones with two 200 amp disconnects built in
Click to expand...
If this is in PSE&G territory, I'd be very careful trying to use any any kind of meter-main, or anything other than a meter pan provided by PSE&G. Meter-mains (or anything else) is verboten by PSE&G fiat. They won't connect anything but a standard meter pan, at least in residential. I found that out last year during the runup to swapping the service on my house.

I have a 320 meter pan (provided by PSE&G) with a disconnect mounted next to it. I really wanted a meter-main for size reasons, but it's not allowed. Even the PSE&G engineer didn't know why. Apparently, the spec was written decades ago, and no one wants to stick their neck out to get it changed in internal documents.


SceneryDriver
 
Ok but is that 320 meter pan dual lug or did you have to bug in multiple panels?

Assume it would need to be either (2) 150's or a leave the 200 and add a 100.
 
Rdel6937 said:
my understanding is the new code , at least in NJ, requires an external disconnect means for I guess the fire or utility company in front of the Main breaker for a service. The issue at hand is really space and design of the additional capacity beyond the current 200A service. If we deliver 300 amps, I can only add a second panel at I believe 100Amps. There is no room to locate this panel next to the existing 200A panel so it will extend into the attached garage. the issue is space, even outside, for a new 300A PSEG meter pan, if that discount is indeed required and if so, it would likely need to be added after the meter. A dual lug meter would be great, then feed two disconnects, reuse the existing cable for the existing 200A panel and add new cable for the garage panel. Or if a 300A meter exists with a built in disconnect and dual lug, that would be ideal. Then its just grounding requirements. In NJ, I beleive anything over 300A requires a CT Cab. Which would still require a disconnect and alot of space outside, that just isn't readily available.
Click to expand...
Your service disconnects need to be "grouped"... and outside per 230.85

A service with multiple switches can have up to 6 switches. The multiple switch ratings can exceed the rating of the 320 meter, but not the (continuous) calculated load. For example... (200+200) (200+100) (200+100+100)

You could run your new GEC to that trough and connect to the grounded conductor there. Bond all metal service side per 250.102

There are many ways of doing the service your trying to figure out.
 
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