300 amp service

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Yes, run from the meter pan to a trough, and bug off a SER cable or conduit feeding a 200amp panel in the house, and bug off to a conduit that feeds the garage. I don't believe you would need a disco for the garage, BUt im not sure because my code book is in the truck and i always need to use a disco due to a local jurisdiction.

BTW, When i use this install its when the house panel is more than 15-20' away from the meter. If the panel is just inside the wall, Run two conduits from the meter pan into two different 200 amp panels with main breakers in the house, and put a 100 amp breaker in one of those, and run 1.25" conduit from it to the garage, were you would install a 100 amp panel.

Also, Do you really need a 320/400 amp service? Maybe a load calculation would be worth it? A 200 amp service would be a lot cheaper, easier, and it may be sufficient

I believe I have seen it done this way also. Are you saying place a trough outside, bug off to the 2 locations and place a 200 main panel inside ? Just out of curiosity would I also need a disconnect for the garage also at this point?
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Oakey said:
Before I ask about the grounding and bonding let me explain something.
I have had my license for 4 years now with 20 years experience and have only taken on jobs that I knew I could do quickly and get out fast. Bills ain't getting paid that way. This has limited my learning and hindered me a LOT. I have recently taken on a builder who has thrown everything at me I could imagine. Hence where I am today ..instead of pricing and getting it done, I am sitting here on a beautiful Sunday wondering. My way of catching up, or torturing myself I guess. No whining just explaining
Now how do I ground this service :grin: and thx for the patience
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Well granted you can get an all-in-one, (Not realizing other areas like to over complicate matters... :D ) and figuring you have a place that is suitable to put it. It is after all a ~4'X5' panel, but if you have a workshop 175 away, it sounds like quite a spread....

Other than that... it is what is reffered to around here as a "Slapper", as in you slap it on a wall, (More like two-man lift) ground it, feed it, and then feed the loads. As you can get them in 2 flavors, (1-400a, or 2-200a MOCP - 2-200 subs are preffered as they are less expensive than a single 400a rated sub-panel.) all the grounding is done in one place. As opposed to bonding through a trough with mutiple mains etc. As you can see here there is one place for grounds and grounded (neutral) conductors, the main bonding jumper is not nessesary as the neutral bar is mounted direct to the can. All you need to do is bring your GEC and water bond right there. If you're really smart you make that a single conductor in one shot. ;)

A word of advice though, I would mount the 2-200a panels first, then the slapper, then your conduits in/out, and plan to mount the slapper rather high than low. I would also do it so you can have the two subs on the opposite side of the wall, (Say outside wall of a garage) so you can nipple through to the load side of the main. Or you can use cable and put the subs elsewhere... (But have those in the wall first if you do...) This is much easier if done with a fair bit of planning and in order - it just makes it easier!!! See attachment:

FYI: You still need to ground the panel at the workshop with an electrod there....
And yes... You should check with your POCO to see if you can even do this.... Or for what restrictions on equipment they might have.

So what's my cut? :D
 
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As for grounding it is a single point - right to the neutral bar of the M/M. (See attachment) Which is why it is easier this way. If you did in a trough from just a meter base - you end up needing to bond the meter base, the trough, and a/both main panel(s) at the house, and the disconnect you would need for the workshop if you did it there... (two - three mains) Sounds like more labor and more superfilous material for grounding??? Granted a 320/400 MM is gonna cost you, I feel it saves time and mashing around - JMO. Truthfully, I think the 3 bugs and the cost of the labor in the trough off-sets it? Especially if you used 3 polaris lugs in it...
 
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Doesn't 250.142 allow the grounded conductor to do the bonding of the meter, trough, and main panels, since all of these enclosures are on the line side of the service? The grounded conductor would have to be sized per 250.66, but I would expect it to be larger than that anyway. No sense running a bunch of separate bonding wires if you don't have to.
 
e57 said:
So what's my cut? :D
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You name it....... but recently in New Jersey only the coolest electricians wear pocket savers.
gap.gif
Heck I'll even bring it to you..Seriously thx for the tips
 
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suemarkp said:
Doesn't 250.142 allow the grounded conductor to do the bonding of the meter, trough, and main panels, since all of these enclosures are on the line side of the service? The grounded conductor would have to be sized per 250.66, but I would expect it to be larger than that anyway. No sense running a bunch of separate bonding wires if you don't have to.
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In the meter most nuetrals are mounted right to the can - done. In each main you're gonna have a MBJ there too. (In each) And you could do one in the trough... Then all the conduits need to be bonded per 250.92(B) (There lays the hassle, bonding intervening conduits, not the grounding of the enclosures) Which in my neck of the woods means bonding bushings (if concentric/eccentric KO's are used) , Myers (grounding type) hubs, or grounding lock nuts (If the screw lifts the nut - fails, doesn't seem tight enough - fails) - and a much closer inspection of each... Which is why the trough method isn't that popular. If I have to do it, I use bushings lay-in lugs and jumpers.

Also in my area you wouldn't be able to bring the GEC into an enclosure prior to the MOCP. (POCO) Which means going in and out continuous, (PITA) or two seperate.
 
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Oakey said:
You name it....... but recently in New Jersey only the coolest electricians wear pocket savers.
gap.gif
Heck I'll even bring it to you..Seriously thx for the tips
Click to expand...

Just tell me where you got the toothless smiley????
 
Oakey said:
You name it....... but recently in New Jersey only the coolest electricians wear pocket savers.
gap.gif
Heck I'll even bring it to you..Seriously thx for the tips
Click to expand...


Man, poor Celtic hasn't even really ventured into this thread, and he's getting picked on....Nice:D
 
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SquareD makes a slick meter/service entrance disconnect/pnlbd that will install for less than gutters, disconnects, etc. Makes for a very clean installation. You can sub-feed the HVAC, garage, etc. as well. Slick.

CU12L400CN is one of the cat #'s.

http://www.squared.com/us/applications/residential.nsf/LookupFiles/MeterMainsAllinOnesMetering2005.pdf/$file/MeterMainsAllinOnesMetering2005.pdf

http://ecatalog.squared.com/catalog/174/html/sections/01/17401018.html

http://ecatalog.squared.com/pubs/Electrical%20Distribution/Combination%20Service%20Entrance%20Devices/4120HO0602.pdf
 
I would like to use the all in one especially since I have convinced the A/C guy to put his condensor in front. But I was informed today that PSEG most likely does not accept them. Rockland Electric would have said yes ..Bummer
 
400 amp Service

400 amp Service

I have an unusual situation, would appreciate your thoughts. My customer has a utilitly company pad mount transformer located on top of a steep bank in the rear of his house. He has cut the bank away and built a large retaining wall and now is adding a pool and heat pump and needs a 400 amp service. The utility requires a 4 inch conduit installed pad to meter base. The transformer is behind the retaining was and there is a drop in elevation of about 40 feet in front of the wall. No way to get under the wall. I will need to put 2-200 amp panels in the house. Can I put 2-200 amp disconnects near the pad and run 2 -200 amp USE's to the house? I would have to trench around the wall, maybe 200 feet which I could do but I don't have enough room to dig a trench the size the utility requires. The utility says it's fine with them since their responsibility ends at the meter base. Appreciate the input.
 
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