300 watt LED flood light 120-277 ?

[Richard Paterson]

Could someone please clarify something for me.

I am a student and I am confused about the voltage ratings on some of the LED outdoor flood lighting.
On the instructions the voltage rating reads "120-277" the device has only three wires (white, black, green). So what I am confused about It doesn't say 120 or 277 just 120-277. I've seen this on many other LED devices.
I would assume that if it was 120 or 277 the black would be "line", white "neutral" and "green" ground, and with that wiring configuration I would think that you could not hook up "Black and Red" 220v circuit . I went to and electrical supply house and they were not be sure... went the manufacture's website and It just repeated the instruction that came with the light. My brother bought two 300 watt lights for his drive way and was going to hook them up to a 220v circuit hooking the black to black and red to white on the light and green would be the neutral.
I explained that he should check on that. I thought the three wires on the light- Black, White, Green would be for 120....
Thanks Rich

 

[Dennis Alwon]

LED can take a wide range of voltages. You can hook it up to 120v or 277 v and it will work. This is very different then what we are used to seeing, ie, diferent conductors for the different voltage. I am not sure of the electronic but I am sure someone here can explain how it is able to utilize many voltages

 

[cpinetree]

Definitely check with the manufacturer.
I believe RAB led lights can be connected to a 220v circuit (as well 120v or 277v)

 

[mgookin]

LED can take a wide range of voltages. You can hook it up to 120v or 277 v and it will work. This is very different then what we are used to seeing, ie, diferent conductors for the different voltage. I am not sure of the electronic but I am sure someone here can explain how it is able to utilize many voltages

A ballast for a HID has traditionally had different conductors for different voltages because they each go to a different part of the winding inside the transformer to produce the required output voltage to drive the load.

On an electronic circuit we use voltage regulators which can accept a wide range of input voltages while producing the required output to drive the load, hence only one hot leg is required to accommodate any voltage within the specified range.

As to the OP, if you have a 120/240V split (single) phase service, and you're running these LED's at 240V, there will be no neutral. That green is to bond to ground.

The red may be a switched leg coming from a timer, photocell or other switching device. It should be switching a hot leg.

 

[dkidd]

Could someone please clarify something for me.

I am a student and I am confused about the voltage ratings on some of the LED outdoor flood lighting.
On the instructions the voltage rating reads "120-277" the device has only three wires (white, black, green). So what I am confused about It doesn't say 120 or 277 just 120-277. I've seen this on many other LED devices.
I would assume that if it was 120 or 277 the black would be "line", white "neutral" and "green" ground

That's correct.

, and with that wiring configuration I would think that you could not hook up "Black and Red" 220v circuit . I went to and electrical supply house and they were not be sure... went the manufacture's website and It just repeated the instruction that came with the light. My brother bought two 300 watt lights for his drive way and was going to hook them up to a 220v circuit hooking the black to black and red to white on the light and green would be the neutral.

NO! Green always needs to be ground. For 220 (actually 240), black to black and red to white would be correct.

I explained that he should check on that. I thought the three wires on the light- Black, White, Green would be for 120....
Thanks Rich

 

[kwired]

Have heard of instances where once you use such a ballast or driver on 277 volts it won't work on 120 anymore.

Not really sure how they work, but is common anymore with various electronic driven power supplies to have an input range and not various voltage taps like you have with transformer type power supplies.

 

[mgookin]

Have heard of instances where once you use such a ballast or driver on 277 volts it won't work on 120 anymore.

Not really sure how they work, but is common anymore with various electronic driven power supplies to have an input range and not various voltage taps like you have with transformer type power supplies.

There are some products out there like that. We get the question all the time.

 

[Richard Paterson]

Two wire single phase 240v on three wire?

Two wire single phase 240v on three wire?

That's correct.

NO! Green always needs to be ground. For 220 (actually 240), black to black and red to white would be correct.

1) Thank you for your response's. OK, so on this 300 watt LED light ... The three wires Black, White, Green, Black to L1 white to L2 and green would be ground. That would mean that there is no neutral ?

2) On the instructions it indicates the white would go to neutral... but on the light and on the specs voltage rating 120-277 Not 120/277.

3) If I can hook up a two wire 240 "Black L1, Red L2" Black to Black Red to White and green to ground; that would mean that this electronic power supply would know the difference and internally switch.
The 240 circuit does not require a neutral ? is this normal?

4) On the REB website From what I could find, Their lights use different taps for different voltage ratings

 

[dkidd]

Please post information on make and model, and a link to instructions.

Do you mean RAB, not REB. And is that the manufacturer?

 

[Richard Paterson]

correction

correction

1) Thank you for your response's. OK, so on this 300 watt LED light ... The three wires Black, White, Green, Black to L1 white to L2 and green would be ground. That would mean that there is no neutral ?

2) On the instructions it indicates the white would go to neutral... but on the light and on the specs voltage rating 120-277 Not 120/277.

3) If I can hook up a two wire 240 "Black L1, Red L2" Black to Black Red to White and green to ground; that would mean that this electronic power supply would know the difference and internally switch.
The 240 circuit does not require a neutral ? is this normal?

4) On the REB website From what I could find, Their lights use different taps for different voltage ratings

yes I mean " REB "

 

[Richard Paterson]

correction RAB not REB

correction RAB not REB

Please post information on make and model, and a link to instructions.

Do you mean RAB, not REB. And is that the manufacturer?

RAB

 

[Richard Paterson]

LED light

LED light

I don't have the instructions but this is the light
http://ledradiant.com/led-70w-dusk-...m-5000k-ip65-ul-dlc-photocell-sensor-included

 

[Richard Paterson]

LED light on amazon

LED light on amazon

https://www.amazon.com/LEDLAND/b/re...110396011&field-lbr_brands_browse-bin=LEDLAND

 

[GoldDigger]

3. Make wiring connections in the fixture (White to Neutral lead, Black to live lead, Yellow/Green to Ground lead).

That suggests that the unit is OK for voltages from 100V to 277V but only if one of the leads is a grounded lead.
No indication of a need for tap changing inside the product.

There is also a new wrinkle on this, namely that it is marked "UL Certified" which as near as I can tell is a different type of UL investigation and recognition.
Their product ID, E359489, does link online to a UL file, but so far I have not been able to determine whether a product covered under the UL Certification and Follow Up Service is recognized as being UL Listed (UL Listing and Follow Up Service) as required under the NEC.

A whole new can of worms. Apparently Certification can include a wide variety of standards, regions and countries under a single mark, whatever that means.

Made in China, of course....

I am chatting online with the companies Tech Support now. No response on that question yet.

 

[GoldDigger]

The saga continues:
A support person from UL stated that they are transitioning to using the Certified mark more and more but she was unable to state whether an AHJ would (or should) accept that mark when NEC requires Listed.
I will be getting follow up from an engineer via email and will report the results here.
When I called out the difference between Certified and Listed the online support chat from the manufacturer went dead.

BTW, FWIW, the standard applied when evaluating the product in question is the IFAM standard under UL1598.

 

[GoldDigger]

Further complication: None of the part numbers shown on the LEDRadiant site match any part numbers in the UL file for Mester Led, the mark holder and presumably manufacturer.

And, also FWIW, the Amazon product, LEDLAND brand, appears to be the same Mester product and the Amazon page says UL Listed.

 

[winnie]

It is quite easy these days to design an LED driver which will function correctly over a wide range of input voltages. This is similar to a laptop computer power supply which will work on anything between 100V and 250V and 50Hz to 400Hz.

Essentially the input is rectified to DC (so input frequency matters very little; some of these devices will function with DC input), and the feedback circuit which adjusts the output to match the requirement of the LEDs simply also compensates for change in the DC voltage.

With the specification provided, the LED should function with any supply voltage from 120V to 277V. It should function with a 240V supply.

But there is a separate issue: Is there a requirement for a _grounded_ conductor? This is commonly called a neutral, but doesn't really need to be the 'neutral'. The grounded conductor is the wire that is supposed to carry current, but which is supposed to be at very low voltage relative to ground. An example of a system that requires a grounded conductor is an ordinary screw shell lamp holder; the screw shell is required to be connected to the grounded conductor.

In the US it is very rare to find systems that have 240V between 'hot' and 'neutral', and you certainly wouldn't find this in a residence. In a US residence you get 240V between _two_ ungrounded ('hot') conductors, each at 120V relative to the grounded conductor. If this LED requires one conductor be grounded, then you cannot connect it to a US residential 240V circuit. (Note: it would probably work, just as a screw shell lamp would work with a 'hot' shell, but it would violate code, listing, or both).

If this lamp requires a grounded conductor, why have a 120-277V supply range? Well 230V 'hot' to 'neutral' is common in other parts of the world, and 277V 'hot' to 'neutral' is common in US commercial installations. Additionally 240V 'hot' to 'neutral' is starting to be seen for some datacenter applications.

-Jon

 

[Richard Paterson]

LED 120 - 277?

LED 120 - 277?

yes I mean " REB "

Thanks for the help!!!

1)In a residential service L1 to ground would be 120, L2 to ground would be 120v L1 to L2 would be 240v, OK... Can that work with No neutral conductor by using the ground green wire as the as the neutral? This does not sound right to me... and will the two L1 and L2 work with no Neutral and no ground ?

2) does the ground work as the neutral when this is hooked up with two hot leeds


3)A single wire 240v hot to ground, that a high leg system right ? and 277v single wire is 480 system right?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I would contact the manufacturer. It may be an issue of a typo or something like that- It may be that it is suppose to say 120/277 but IDK.... If a neutral is needed that that would be the case, IMO

 

[dkidd]

2) does the ground work as the neutral when this is hooked up with two hot leeds

NO! Ground is always ground and not intended to carry current under normal operation.