310.72(D) and bathroom vent fan.

Status
Not open for further replies.
tortuga

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
Hampton Bay Bathroom fan 249872 with wiring compartment not Accessible after installation, would this fall under 310.72(D)?
 
OOPS sorry I ment 314.72(D)
(D) Wiring Is Accessible. Boxes and conduit bodies shall
be installed so that the conductors are accessible without
removing any fixed part of the building or structure. Work-
ing space shall be provided in accordance with 110.34.
Click to expand...
It seems like all new work residentail can lights there should be a way to acess the junction box from inside the housing of a bath fan light unit.
Broan bath fans all have a little cover that you can unscrew.
I should have got a pict of it.
 
The requirements of the section are also met if the wiring is accessible after removing the entire fan unit. Just because it is new work does not mean that the fan (including housing):can not be mounted in a removable way. Without disturbing building finish or structure.
 
I doubt 314.72 applies to this at all unless the equipment is over 600 volts.

314.72 is in section IV. Pull and Junction Boxes for Use on Systems over 600 Volts, Nominal.
 
So if I have to sawzall the fan out of the ceiling to inspect the wiring connections it meets 314.72(D)? Or do you mean remove the motor from the housing?

UL 507 13.3.1 States that "A field wiring compartment in which power supply connections are made shall be located so that the connections are readily able to be inspected after the appliance is installed as intended"

I see no way to do just that on these after reading the instructions, interviewing the electrician whom installed it and poking around in the thing, it seems like the motor is in the way of the terminal compartment and attached from above.

If I have to sawzall the metal can out of the ceiling the romex is still stapled and wont allow "ready" access to that funny little "pecker head" or motor "terminal box". You should not even have to unbolt a squirrel cage fan blade to access the terminal box which is the only removable nut I see inside.

UL 507 13.3.5 "electrical components shall not be mounted on a part, such as the cover of a wiring terminal compartment"

Here is a link to the install instructions:
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/8d/8dea211d-dc48-4f56-b168-1dea83f97bb3.pdf
Check one out next time your in a big orange store..
 
iwire said:
I doubt 314.72 applies to this at all unless the equipment is over 600 volts.

314.72 is in section IV. Pull and Junction Boxes for Use on Systems over 600 Volts, Nominal.
Click to expand...

Oh sorry its late yeah it would apply to:
314.29 Boxes, Conduit Bodies, and Handhole Enclo-
sures to Be Accessible. Boxes, conduit bodies, and hand-
hole enclosures shall be installed so that the wiring con-
tained in them can be rendered accessible without removing
any part of the building or structure, or, in underground
circuits, without excavating sidewalks, paving, earth, or
other substance that is to be used to establish the finished
grade.
Click to expand...
 
tortuga said:
So if I have to sawzall the fan out of the ceiling to inspect the wiring connections it meets 314.72(D)? Or do you mean remove the motor from the housing?
Click to expand...

I really don't know if the NEC applies to the construction of a bath fan, it seems more of a listing issue then a code one.


As far as the NEC you were just to far into article 314.:)


314.29 Boxes, Conduit Bodies, and Handhole Enclosures
to Be Accessible. Boxes, conduit bodies, and handhole
enclosures shall be installed so that the wiring contained
in them can be rendered accessible without removing
any part of the building or, in underground circuits, without
excavating sidewalks, paving, earth, or other substance that
is to be used to establish the finished grade.

Exception: Listed boxes and handhole enclosures shall be
permitted where covered by gravel, light aggregate, or noncohesive
granulated soil if their location is effectively identified
and accessible for excavation.
Click to expand...
 
Not familiar with the specific model mentioned, but if you can pull out a few screws and then drop the can to access the terminal box, NEC is satisfied. If you have to resort to a sawzall to remove the can - it is probably not considered accessible.
 
kwired said:
Not familiar with the specific model mentioned, but if you can pull out a few screws and then drop the can to access the terminal box, NEC is satisfied. If you have to resort to a sawzall to remove the can - it is probably not considered accessible.
Click to expand...

Installation instructions will tell you how to mount and like some recess cans there may be a label about only accesible from above which makes it's instalation in a accessible ceiling. Ever try to access the J box on a 2" IC can? they have a removable part similar to a remodel type recess but the initial J box is actually non accessible.
 
mwm1752 said:
Installation instructions will tell you how to mount and like some recess cans there may be a label about only accesible from above which makes it's instalation in a accessible ceiling. Ever try to access the J box on a 2" IC can? they have a removable part similar to a remodel type recess but the initial J box is actually non accessible.
Click to expand...
I never knew there was such a thing as a 2 inch can, so I guess that means I never tried to access it either.;)
 
The fan you are referring to is to be installed in unfinished attic space and should be listed for such space. Installing in spaces other than is a violation of 110. 3B.
 
chicar said:
The fan you are referring to is to be installed in unfinished attic space and should be listed for such space. Installing in spaces other than is a violation of 110. 3B.
Click to expand...

I see nothing in the instructions to back that up.

It appears to be a typical fan for use in any bathroom.
 
iwire said:
I see nothing in the instructions to back that up.

It appears to be a typical fan for use in any bathroom.
Click to expand...
Agreed
and I did not see anthing in UL that would allow the fan to be accessable from a other space such as a attic only.
The UL document is suprisingly specific compared to others I have read.
I would encourage any inspector or supervising electrician to turn down products that do not allow "ready" access to the connections like those two inch cans, they use the term in UL documents just like the NEC, and you should not have to remove ANYTHING attached to the Jbox cover.
Another thing about this fan is it uses low voltage control wiring that is not identified well as such that is routed into the same junction box compartment and typically I see it connected to romex and run into a switch box with other 120V line conductors. I know its 'code' and 'ul' but it is not clear in those instructions other than a note on conductor size.

Thank you all for your thoughts
 
Well when an instruction sheet starts out like this you gotta wonder about the rest of it!:)

????????????
????????????
????????????
????????????
DELTA ELECTRONICS, INC.
DESCRIPTION
?
MANUAL
SUPPLIER
?
-----
THESE DRAWINGS AND SPECIFICATIONS ARE THE PROPERTY
OF
DELTA ELECTRONICS, INC. AND SHALL NOT BE REPRODUCED
OR
USED AS THE BASIS FOR THE MANUFACTURE OR SELL OF
APPARATUSES OR DEVICES WITHOUT PERMISSION.
DOCUMENT NAME
?
5011485800
REV.
00
SHEET
A TO
1
Frame Name
?
DF-HTYA4V-2R00.DOC
NOTES
?
??
?
1.MATERIAL: 70P WOOD PAPER.
2. SIZE:
8.5? x11? .
8.5? x11? .
8.5? x11? .
8.5? x11? .
3. COLOR: BACKGROUND: WHITE.; PARINTING: BLACK.
4.. TWO-SIDED PRINTING.
5. THE PRINTING CONTENT MUST BE CLEAR AND NOT HAVE
BURRS.
6. MUST MEET DELTA?S SPEC.: 10000-0006, 10000-0162,
10000-0131.
7. OPEN SIDE ARE RIGHT SIDE, FIXED SIDE ARE LIFT SIDE.

8. pie are round, cornbread are square!:lol:

 
Last edited:
GoldDigger said:
When the metadata creeps into the data you get things like that. ;)
Click to expand...

I was referring to the misspelled words that were obviously translated wrong. The actual document didn't paste as it was laid out. That's where all the "gargoly goop" came from, when I copied and pasted it.
 
Little Bill said:
I was referring to the misspelled words that were obviously translated wrong. The actual document didn't paste as it was laid out. That's where all the "gargoly goop" came from, when I copied and pasted it.
Click to expand...
And I was referring to the fact that most of what was quoted was instructions to the printer rather than anything ever intended to be part of the manual.
In some cases this happens when an electronic document with a "cover letter" embedded in it is printed in its entirety.
 
Yeah I about fell off my chair laughing at those instructions!
The first page is a classic.
I filed a inquirey with UL as to the fan Ill report back what they say.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top