• We will be performing upgrades on the forums and server over the weekend. The forums may be unavailable multiple times for up to an hour each. Thank you for your patience and understanding as we work to make the forums even better.

312.5(C)Exception

Status
Not open for further replies.

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
What does (7) and the informational note mean when you're using a short section of raceway as a sleeve into the panel?

312.5(C) Cables. Where cable is used, each cable shall be secured
to the cabinet, cutout box, or meter socket enclosure.
Exception: Cables with entirely nonmetallic sheaths shall be permitted to
enter the top of a surface-mounted enclosure through one or more
nonflexible raceways not less than 450 mm (18 in.) and not more than
3.0 m (10 ft) in length, provided all of the following conditions are
met:
(1) Each cable is fastened within 300 mm (12 in.), measured along
the sheath, of the outer end of the raceway.
(2) The raceway extends directly above the enclosure and does not
penetrate a structural ceiling.
(3) A fitting is provided on each end of the raceway to protect the
cable(s) from abrasion and the fittings remain accessible after
installation.
(4) The raceway is sealed or plugged at the outer end using approved
means so as to prevent access to the enclosure through the race‐
way.
(5) The cable sheath is continuous through the raceway and extends
into the enclosure beyond the fitting not less than 6 mm ( 1 ∕ 4 in.).
(6) The raceway is fastened at its outer end and at other points in
accordance with the applicable article.
(7) Where installed as conduit or tubing, the cable fill does not exceed
the amount that would be permitted for complete conduit or
tubing systems by Table 1 of Chapter 9 of this Code and all appli‐
cable notes thereto. Note 2 to the tables in Chapter 9 does not
apply to this condition.
Informational Note: See Table 1 in Chapter 9, including Note 9,
for allowable cable fill in circular raceways. See 310.15(B)(3)(a)
for required ampacity reductions for multiple cables installed in
a common raceway.
 

tom baker

First Chief Moderator & NEC Expert
Staff member
Location
Bremerton, Washington
Occupation
Master Electrician
To start it says "where installed as conduit or tubing" and should that be "where installed in conduit or tubing"?
 

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
What does (7) and the informational note mean when you're using a short section of raceway as a sleeve into the panel?
This 2014 rejection reads like a sports page, it eventually passes:
FROM the NFPA rop records:
9-24 Log #122 NEC-P09 Final Action: Reject
(312.5(C) Exception (g))
________________________________________________________________
Submitter: Dennis Alwon, Alwon Electric Inc.
Recommendation: Revise text to read as follows:
(g) Where installed as conduit or tubing, the allowable cable fill does not
exceed that permitted for complete conduit or tubing systems by Table 1 of
Chapter 9 of this Code and all applicable notes thereto except Note 2.
Substantiation: As written, this exception makes no sense since it takes us to
Table 1 of Chapter 9 Note 2 which states that for sleeves Table 1 is not
applicable. Section 312.5(C) is about sleeving NM cables into a panel. So we
are told to use Table 1 then we are given exemption from using Table 1. If the
intent is to consider conduit fill then Note 2 should be excluded otherwise the
entire section (g) should be excluded.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: The requirements in Note 2 apply to a nonflexible raceway
installed as conduit or tubing with a length of more than 24 in. and less than 10
ft, in this application. Note 4’s requirements apply to conduit or tubing nipples
with length between 18 and 24 in., in the context of this installation.
Number Eligible to Vote: 12
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 11 Negative: 1
Explanation of Negative:
HARTWELL, F.: This proposal should have been accepted. In spite of this
being one of the most surprisingly controversial, passionately debated, and
exhaustively studied topics in the history of CMP 9, there is a problem with the
wording that the proposal corrects. This exception has a long, tortured history,
and unfortunately only two members of the panel present for the discussion of
this exception (Hartwell and Sengupta) in the 1993, 1996 and 1999 cycles
remain at this time, and the lack of that shared experience influenced the final
panel action. This exception began with Proposal 9-69 in the 1993 cycle
followed by 19 public comments, which resulted in a special task group being
created to produce acceptable text for the 1996 cycle. The task group (chaired
by this member) gave the issue exhaustive study, including the 21 proposals for
the 1996 NEC submitted by the public on the topic, and reported what became
Proposal 9-66a from the panel. This was followed by 10 public comments,
which resulted in the proposal remaining accepted by show of hands on a vote
of 11 to 2 at the meeting. However two votes changed during recirculation, one
by facsimile with only 30 seconds remaining. The final vote of 7-4 was one
short of the required two-thirds, and so we moved on to the 1999 cycle, Finally
after merely two proposals and six public comments (bringing the total number
of panel actions on this topic to 60) the final language entered the NEC at last.
The record shows that CMP 9 was properly concerned with the integrity of
large numbers of cable assemblies pulled into a common sleeve, along with
mutual conductor heating. This is why the informational note says what it says,
and why paragraph “(g)” is included. At the meeting the current CMP 9 chair, a
veteran of CMP 8, correctly pointed out that a sleeve that is purely for
mechanical protection for one or two cables can be filled without regard for
raceway fill. This application is somewhat different. This is a method of
bringing large numbers of cables into a cabinet through a common raceway,
generally for aesthetic purposes. It has been done for generations in numerous
jurisdictions. If the raceway is short enough to qualify as a nipple, then mutual
conductor heating derating penalties do not apply. This is the customary case,
as in an instance where a panelboard is surface mounted below a suspended
ceiling in a commercial occupancy. CMP 9 imposed the 18-inch minimum
length to assure that a fault in the cabinet would be contained
, along with many
other provisos to cobble together the required panel majority, each one fought
out during protracted discussion. We overlooked, however (and no member of
the public raised the question until this cycle) that Note 2 could be
misinterpreted to countermand the intended application of the factors covered
in the informational note. The panel statement does not respond to the merits of
the proposal, which should be accepted in some form.

Comment on Affirmative:
BELISLE, R.: The current text of 312.5 (C), Ex.(g) is written to indicate that
an installation conforming to all of the requirements in 312.5( C ) Ex. would
qualify as a “complete conduit or tubing system” and therefore requires
enforcement of Note 2 of Chapter 9.

HUMPHREY, D.: A lengthy discussion made clear there is uncertainty in the
application of section 312.5(C) exception with regard to Chapter 9, Table 1 and
the “Notes to Tables”. This proposal warrants comment and further discussion.

312.5(C) is a often overlooked and ignored item by residential inspectors around here. I did a bunch of reserch on it for my continuing ed class I teach, I am hoping to raise awareness.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
To start it says "where installed as conduit or tubing" and should that be "where installed in conduit or tubing"?
IMO that makes all the difference when applying (7), by using the literal wording of as, not in. Dennis wrote the proposal for the wording change so maybe he'll chime in. :cool:
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I can't believe I wrote that. I have absolutely no recollection of sending in that proposal.. Dang.... I never even bother to check which ones of mine got accepted or not. hahaha

Glad to see someone on the panel agrees with me
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I think once its over 24IN its considered a "complete system"


I think that is what they are saying in a round about way but only for this application.

Honestly I have to re-read what I wrote and try to remember what my point was at that time. That was a proposal for the 2014 so it was 7-8 years ago
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top