330.30 (d) (2)

[LAYMAN JOE]

How do you interpret the use of the word equipment in the context of this article?


330.30 (d) (2)

Is not more than 6' in length from the last point of cable support to the point of connection to a light fixture or other piece of electrical equipment and the cable and the point of connection are within an accessible ceiling.

I am wondering if the MC cable to a junction box in a suspended ceiling can be strapped within 6' from the box and this be an acceptable installation. A j-box is a piece of equipment aint it?

What say you?

 

[iwire]

In my opinion the 'other piece of equipment' is some equipment that the whip supplies other than a light fixture.

A fan, a heater etc.

 

[LAYMAN JOE]

The definition of equipment

The definition of equipment

I forgot to post the NEC definition of equipment.

Equipment

A general term including material, fittings, devices, appliances, luminaires, apparatus, and the like used as a part of, or in connection with, an electrical installation.

Some see a junction box as material or apparatus used as a part of, or in connection with, an electrical installation.

What do you think?

 

[celtic]

IMHO....

From 100:

Equipment.
A general term including material, fittings, devices, appliances, luminaires (fixtures), apparatus, and the like used as a part of, or in connection with, an electrical installation.

A box is "equipment".

330.30(D)(2) also states:

For the purpose of this section, Type MC cable fittings shall be permitted as a means of cable support.

330.30(D)(2) limits the length of unsupported cables in accessible ceilings to 6'. How do you you propose to increase the length of the cable to over 6' and use 330.30(D)(2)?

 

[LAYMAN JOE]

I may have not been clear...

Is it permissible to make the first strap WITHIN 6' from a junction box in a suspended ceiling?
I am not proposing to increase the first means of support to be over 6'.

We know we can strap within 6' from a light fixture, but what about a junction box. What is "other piece of electrical equipment" referring to?

 

[celtic]

Is it permissible to make the first strap WITHIN 6' from a junction box in a suspended ceiling?
I am not proposing to increase the first means of support to be over 6'.

That depends ...how many conductors, what size conductors ~ 330.30(B) & (C)

 

[augie47]

mc

mc

to me, your most common installation would fall uner 330.30 (B )...regardless of wheter you call a box "equipment", (B) states within 12" of every BOX.

(Speaking generally and pin-pointing the comon box/mc situation)

{it was sounding to me like somone was looking for a reason for not having the MC secureed within 12" of a box}

 

[LAYMAN JOE]

That depends ...how many conductors, what size conductors ~ 330.30(B) & (C)

1) Say you have 4 or fewer # 10 awg.
2) Say you have 5 or more #10 awg.

It doesn't matter because the installation is in an accessible ceiling, right?

If I have a 2 conductor MC cable going from one light to the next light, the first strap must be within 6'. The strap does not need to be within 12" as per 330.30 (B). Article 330.30 (D) (2) trumps 330.30 (B) in this regard.

In your previous post you stated that a junction box is "equipment". Therefor it is permissible for the first strap to be within 6' of a junction box that is installed in an accessible ceiling. Is this correct?

Has anyone done this on a job ( first strap from a junction box within 6 ' ) , and has there been any problems with the AHJ?

This would save a lot of labor and material if this was an acceptable installation.

 

[LAYMAN JOE]

{it was sounding to me like somone was looking for a reason for not having the MC secureed within 12" of a box}

Yes. That is what I am looking for. Just as code permits not having to secure MC within 12" of a luminaire installed in an accessible ceiling. A "luminaire or other piece of electrical equipment".

The question is : Is a junction box considered "other piece of electrical equipment" in the context that article 330.30 (D) (2) was written ?

The question is clear. Any help would be appreciated. I sure aint getting help from my AHJ.

 

[roger]

I don't know if this addresses your question or not, but see the illustration below from the 2002 NEC.

Note that this article was reorganized in the 2005 NEC, but the wording remains, and is the same in 320 and 330

Roger

 

[LAYMAN JOE]

Roger,

Thanks for the post, it helped.
Still unclear though.
It seems the code permits me feeding a j-box from the panel and then going from the j-box to feed any electrical equipment and not having to strap the MC within 12" of the j-box in an accessible ceiling. Instead, I am able to place the first strap within 6' of the j-box period.

This is not commonly done. Everyone I know has to shoot up extra tie wire within 12 " of the box. Its a lot of extra material and labor to do this. They strap within 12" of a j- box but then strap within 6' of lights.

I think the code allows us straps within 6' of ANY electrical equipment including J- boxes as defined by the NEC itself.

 

[LarryFine]

We have routinely hung MC whips from connectors in ceiling boxes without additional support at the box. I do insist on two things: (1) using angle connectors because they grip the cable well and allow the cable to hang straight down, and (2) making sure that the end of the flex with the outer wrap is at the top so the cable won't pull out of the connector.

 

[celtic]

Everyone I know has to shoot up extra tie wire within 12 " of the box. Its a lot of extra material and labor to do this. They strap within 12" of a j- box but then strap within 6' of lights.

Look closely at the picture:
If OVER 6', secure within' 12", every 6' thereafter, leaving last 6' unsecure.
If 6' or LESS, your done.

For the purpose of this section, Type MC cable fittings shall be permitted as a means of cable support.

330.30(D)(2)

EDIT:
Wrote every 4.5' thereafter, instead of every 6' thereafter...opps

 

[celtic]

I think the code allows us straps within 6' of ANY electrical equipment including J- boxes as defined by the NEC itself.

How?

330.30(B) Securing.
Unless otherwise provided, cables shall be secured at intervals not exceeding 1.8 m (6 ft). Cables containing four or fewer conductors sized no larger than 10 AWG shall be secured within 300 mm (12 in.) of every box, cabinet, fitting, or other cable termination.

"Unless otherwise provided...." seems pretty starightforward.

 

[LAYMAN JOE]

How?

According to 330.30 (D) (2). You took my statement out of context. Strapped within 6' when installed in an accessible ceiling.

"Unless otherwise provided...." seems pretty starightforward.

It is "otherwise provided" according to (D) (2).

 

[infinity]

In my opinion the 'other piece of equipment' is some equipment that the whip supplies other than a light fixture.

A fan, a heater etc.

I agree with Bob. 330.30(d)(2) lists 2 choices, lighting fixtures and other pieces of equipment. Could be an air handler, pump, or what Bob said.

 

[LAYMAN JOE]

I agree with Bob. 330.30(d)(2) lists 2 choices, lighting fixtures and other pieces of equipment. Could be an air handler, pump, or what Bob said.

Thats not how the NEC defines equipment.

NEC definition

Equipment:
A general term including material, fittings, devises, appliances, fixtures, apparatus, and the like used as a part of, or in connection with, an electrical installation.

Are we going to use our own definitions or the NEC's definitions? We must use the NEC definition.

 

[iwire]

Thats not how the NEC defines equipment.

Are we going to use our own definitions or the NEC's definitions? We must use the NEC definition.

I don't think we are changing the definition or using our own definition.

We are simply using it in the context of the section.

 

[LAYMAN JOE]

I don't think we are changing the definition or using our own definition.

We are simply using it in the context of the section.

Yes! This is the only real rebuttal to the argument. The only way to get to the bottom of it is to call the AHJ, tell them my name is Bob with EC&M, and ask the silly question.:smile:

 

[augie47]

"he said"

"he said"

Over the years I've tried that. "Bob said", "Mike Holt says", "Joseph McPartland writes"...etc. Never swayed an inspector yet ....Bob WHO????