4-wire range/stove

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In short, yes.

For new installations it is no longer permissible to use the grounded conductor for grounding and bonding of the frame of the range/stove. So you will have to supply a grounded conductor for all 120 volt loads and an EGC to ground and bond the frame of the range/stove.

Chris

P.S. Welcome to the forum.:)
 
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That would have been my answer too, if I had seen the question first. But in a quick attempt to get my post count closer to George's :grin:, let me add that the relevant code article is 250.140.
 
infinity said:
Why does the GC care in the first place? Is he the licensed electrical contractor?
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I guess it his money so he wants to save. I'd complain also if it were a gas range and he was using 4 wire.:grin:
 
cross1 said:
Is it required by the NEC to have a 4 wire home run for a stove/range?
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Flat out ~ NO.

How about we use Type AC, EMT, RMC, etc and an appropiately sized EGC on the box ;)

(Devil's Advocate).

Let's not assume the world is wired with NM :D




cross1 said:
GC is giving a hard time about this subject.
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What's his arguement???
 
charlie b said:
That would have been my answer too, if I had seen the question first. But in a quick attempt to get my post count closer to George's :grin:, let me add that the relevant code article is 250.140.
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I'll share something with you that my Nascar-watching father once told me: Second place is simply the first loser. :D

You know, Bob's edging awfully close to 10 posts per day; what will that make him? :D :D

___________________________
-George
First Loser​
 
cross1 said:
Is it required by the NEC to have a 4 wire home run for a stove/range? GC is giving a hard time about this subject.
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New circuit?....NM?...yes. It has been for quite a while....right?



Spinoff question. I have seen SOME cooktops that are staight 240 with NO neutral connection. Are 4 wire NM circuits required in this case?

Spinoff #2. Can you use 3 wire NM to RELOCATE a range/oven/dryer circuit? I assume so.
 
celtic said:
Flat out ~ NO.

How about we use Type AC, EMT, RMC, etc and an appropiately sized EGC on the box ;)

(Devil's Advocate).

Let's not assume the world is wired with NM :D





What's his arguement???
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Can you prove by NEC that it doesn't have to be 4 wire. GC questions everything...thinks he knows all codes for all...just a pain.
 
JohnConnolly said:
Spinoff question. I have seen SOME cooktops that are staight 240 with NO neutral connection. Are 4 wire NM circuits required in this case?
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I am assuming there is nothing but burners and/or elements? No clock, no timer? If the specs call for 3-wire, then 3-wire it is.

JohnConnolly said:
Spinoff #2. Can you use 3 wire NM to RELOCATE a range/oven/dryer circuit? I assume so.
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I don't know if anybody (AHJ) would allow a NEW cooking/drying circuit to be 3-wire. I suppose there are 3-prong cord caps for 4-wire cord,...? But the new wire would, I believe, still have to be 4 conductor.
 
I'm getting a hard time from a GC also on condo remodels. He keeps telling me I'm buying too much material. He bids the jobs without consulting an electrician, then freaks out when there's more work or material involved then what he saw in his crystal ball or what was spent on another one.
 
cross1 said:
Can you prove by NEC that it doesn't have to be 4 wire. GC questions everything...thinks he knows all codes for all...just a pain.
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I don't want to speak for celtic, but I think what he is getting at is that all of the raceways he mentions are listed in 250.118 as being acceptable equipment grounding conductors. If one of those wiring methods is used for the range circuit, you can get by with only 3 wires. The raceway can be the fourth conductor.
 
kdog29 said:
I'm getting a hard time from a GC also on condo remodels. He keeps telling me I'm buying too much material. He bids the jobs without consulting an electrician, then freaks out when there's more work or material involved then what he saw in his crystal ball or what was spent on another one.
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Time for you to go out to market your services to another source of income. That type of GC needs quick flushing or if you continue to try to work with him, you will surley go broke.
 
eprice said:
I don't want to speak for celtic, but I think what he is getting at is that all of the raceways he mentions are listed in 250.118 as being acceptable equipment grounding conductors. If one of those wiring methods is used for the range circuit, you can get by with only 3 wires. The raceway can be the fourth conductor.
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That is where I was headed :) ...you did your homework.


But to answer the question posied to me:
cross1 said:
Can you prove by NEC that it doesn't have to be 4 wire. GC questions everything...thinks he knows all codes for all...just a pain.
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Charlie B has stated it already:
charlie b said:
....the relevant code article is 250.140.
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The ONLY way you would you be allowed a 3 wire to the range is under 2 conditions:
a) Pre-existing - does not apply to your job(it's not a mobile home or RV, is it?)
b) One of the methods in 250.118


The big question is:
Why does this GC care to micro-manage your end of the job?
Why do you allow him to do so?

You were hired to do a job at a price that all parties agreed to.
My reply to that GC the next time he poked his nose in my business would be:
I'm plucking this chicken - you just watch the feathers fly!
​

Said with a big smile and direct nose-to-nose contact.:grin:
 
kdog29 said:
I'm getting a hard time from a GC also on condo remodels. He keeps telling me I'm buying too much material. He bids the jobs without consulting an electrician, then freaks out when there's more work or material involved then what he saw in his crystal ball or what was spent on another one.
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So what?

He agreed to your price/contract..when he stops paying, you stop showing up....unless of course you agreed to start/finish for T&M or a "daily" rate and a handshake ...LOL, then you're screwed.

Why is it that EC's actually care what the GC says?
If he submitted a bid w/o first having gotten some numbers from qualified and competant EC's ~ whose problem is that?
Don't let HIS problem become YOURS!
 
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