400.8(A) Violation?

don_resqcapt19 · Apr 11, 2016

jumper said:
Yes, but is it a NEC violation according to 314.23(H)(1)?

And yes I know 110.3(B) and the listing.

It is to me as I read the section as requiring the threaded hub to be a part of the box.

Smart $ · Apr 11, 2016

don_resqcapt19 said:
OSHA will cite you for using a 4 square box like that.

That would not surprise me... but that doesn't change the facts of what I said.

Smart $ · Apr 11, 2016

don_resqcapt19 said:
It is to me as I read the section as requiring the threaded hub to be a part of the box.

314.23(H)(1) is even more lenient as "such as a strain-relief connector threaded into a box with a hub" is only a suggestion on how to meet the strain relief requirement. And again a hub integral with the box is not specified.

I also do not see a requirement anywhere that states the box must be listed as a pendant or portable box. Do you?

don_resqcapt19 · Apr 11, 2016

Smart $ said:
314.23(H)(1) is even more lenient as "such as a strain-relief connector threaded into a box with a hub" is only a suggestion on how to meet the strain relief requirement. And again a hub integral with the box is not specified.

I also do not see a requirement anywhere that states the box must be listed as a pendant or portable box. Do you?

I still read the section as requiring the hub to be a prat of the box....your AHJ may not read it that way, but that is how it is read around here.

Smart $ · Apr 12, 2016

don_resqcapt19 said:
I still read the section as requiring the hub to be a prat of the box....your AHJ may not read it that way, but that is how it is read around here.

Well, you are reading something into the requirement that isn't really there in print. That may well be the intent, so I understand where you are coming from. I've been there on other issues. We so convince ourselves of the intent that the actual words are "read that way" in our mind. Isn't that essentially what Charlie's Law from earlier forum days mean.

don_resqcapt19 · Apr 12, 2016

Smart $ said:
Well, you are reading something into the requirement that isn't really there in print. That may well be the intent, so I understand where you are coming from. I've been there on other issues. We so convince ourselves of the intent that the actual words are "read that way" in our mind. Isn't that essentially what Charlie's Law from earlier forum days mean.

We are just reading the words differently.

I see the words "into a box with a hub" in the section as very clearly requiring the hub to be a physical part of the box.

jim dungar · Apr 12, 2016

don_resqcapt19 said:
I see the words "into a box with a hub" in the section as very clearly requiring the hub to be a physical part of the box.

So what do you do you see the preceding words "such as" as meaning? Why can't the code section be met using something such as a listed integral strain relief clamp?

Dennis Alwon · Apr 12, 2016

Don if you look at a bell box the threaded part is a hub but the bulk of it is in the box not outside. It seems you think a hub can only be something extending from the box. I am not so sure that is correct.

I was really hoping to find a plastic box with a threaded hub just to see what you thought about that as being compliant-- shake up those inspectors some, huh???

Dennis Alwon · Apr 12, 2016

I think this is one. I was sure I had seen a single gang somewhere. Those are threaded entries and I would call that a hub

don_resqcapt19 · Apr 12, 2016

Dennis,
I would see those as hubs, but that is not how I recall bell boxes being made. I believe some of the older ones had threaded openings that did not have the internal hub...just a very slight increase in the wall thickness.(but I probably haven't used a bell box in 25 or 30 years

)

jumper · Apr 12, 2016

don_resqcapt19 said:
Dennis,
I would see those as hubs, but that is not how I recall bell boxes being made. I believe some of the older ones had threaded openings that did not have the internal hub...just a very slight increase in the wall thickness.(but I probably haven't used a bell box in 25 or 30 years )

The top top and bottom entries (hubs) would be suitable for a pendant, but not the rear entry IMO. The rear is as you describe.

View attachment 14788

If you click on it, the pic is clearer.

Smart $ · Apr 12, 2016

don_resqcapt19 said:
We are just reading the words differently.

I see the words "into a box with a hub" in the section as very clearly requiring the hub to be a physical part of the box.

I know exactly how you are reading it. What I'm saying is a 4sq box with a myers hub installed in one of the knockouts is also "a box with a hub".

don_resqcapt19 · Apr 12, 2016

jumper said:
The top top and bottom entries (hubs) would be suitable for a pendant, but not the rear entry IMO. The rear is as you describe.

View attachment 14788

If you click on it, the pic is clearer.

Now how are you going to attach the strain relief? The following is from the UL Guide Information for "Outlet Bushings and Fittings (QCRV).

This category covers supports for outlet and flush device boxes; bushings for use in metal studs; fittings for use in or on outlet and flush device boxes, such as knockout reducers, seals and insulating inserts, and cord-grip attachments; insulating gaskets used behind cover plates for flush-mounted wiring devices to stop drafts; pulling grips, strain-relief grips and support grips; locknuts for conduit; sealing gaskets (washers), sealing rings, service-entrance heads for rigid conduit or electrical metallic tubing; cable riser supports; and bushings for use on the ends of rigid or flexible conduit, or electrical metallic tubing, where a change to open wiring is made.

All male threaded fittings have only been investigated for use with locknuts.

GoldDigger · Apr 12, 2016

don_resqcapt19 said:
Now how are you going to attach the strain relief? The following is from the UL Guide Information for "Outlet Bushings and Fittings (QCRV).
[/B]

With a locknut (jam nut) on the outside surface, just as you could with an external hub?

Smart $ · Apr 12, 2016

don_resqcapt19 said:
Now how are you going to attach the strain relief? The following is from the UL Guide Information for "Outlet Bushings and Fittings (QCRV).

...
All male threaded fittings have only been investigated for use with locknuts.

Click to expand...

If you go by that statement, you can't install any fitting into a hub... :slaphead:

jumper · Apr 13, 2016

don_resqcapt19 said:
Now how are you going to attach the strain relief? The following is from the UL Guide Information for "Outlet Bushings and Fittings (QCRV).
[/B]

Smart $ said:
If you go by that statement, you can't install any fitting into a hub... :slaphead:

What Smart said.

FS and FD boxes with threaded hubs would be out also.

don_resqcapt19 · Apr 13, 2016

Smart $ said:
If you go by that statement, you can't install any fitting into a hub... :slaphead:

Almost all of the UL Guide information sheet for connectors and other fittings with male threads say that.

don_resqcapt19 · Apr 13, 2016

jumper said:
What Smart said.

FS and FD boxes with threaded hubs would be out also.

Just like a lot of things we always do, the UL book says we can't.

Smart $ · Apr 13, 2016

don_resqcapt19 said:
Almost all of the UL Guide information sheet for connectors and other fittings with male threads say that.

don_resqcapt19 said:
Just like a lot of things we always do, the UL book says we can't.

IMO, that statement doesn't really say we cannot use it connected another way. It simply says what it says.

jumper · Apr 14, 2016

don_resqcapt19 said:
Just like a lot of things we always do, the UL book says we can't.

Well, there is that. No argument.

400.8(A) Violation?

Moderator

Esteemed Member

Esteemed Member

Moderator

Esteemed Member

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Senior Member

Esteemed Member

Moderator

Moderator

Esteemed Member

Senior Member

Moderator

Moderator

Esteemed Member

Senior Member