404.2 C 2

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ceb58

ceb58

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Raeford, NC
Dose any one see a problem with this set up. I am installing 16 high bay lights at 240v. They want them split 8 & 8 on the switches and switched from 6 locations.
I plan on using 2 contacts with 120v coils. All of the wiring, mc cable and switch boxes will be surfaced mounted. I would like to make the last boxes dead end three ways and not have a grounded conductor in the boxes. Any one see a problem with 404.2 (C)(2)?
 
Would any of 404.2(C) apply to this installation since the lighting loads are 240 volts? If it did apply I don't see how you would have complied with either exception by using a surface mounted box.

404.2(C) Switches Controlling Lighting Loads. Where switches
control lighting loads supplied by a grounded general purpose
branch circuit, the grounded circuit conductor for the con-
trolled lighting circuit shall be provided at the switch location.
Exception: The grounded circuit conductor shall be per-
mitted to be omitted from the switch enclosure where either
of the following conditions in (1) or (2) apply:
(1) Conductors for switches controlling lighting loads en-
ter the box through a raceway. The raceway shall have
suffıcient cross-sectional area to accommodate the ex-
tension of the grounded circuit conductor of the light-
ing circuit to the switch location whether or not the
conductors in the raceway are required to be increased
in size to comply with 310.15(B)(3)(a).
(2) Cable assemblies for switches controlling lighting
loads enter the box through a framing cavity that is
open at the top or bottom on the same floor level, or
through a wall, floor, or ceiling that is unfinished on
one side.
Click to expand...
 
infinity said:
Would any of 404.2(C) apply to this installation since the lighting loads are 240 volts? If it did apply I don't see how you would have complied with either exception by using a surface mounted box.
Click to expand...

Well, I am not sure it would apply since the lights are 240v but the control circuit that the switches are on will be 120v. The reason I brought up excpt. 2 is because the wiring and boxes will be surfaced mounted. I think that would be in line with the intent of the exception as to have unrestricted access to later install a grounded conductor if need be. But there again this is a control circuit.
 
If it is surface mounted and there is a means to get a neutral in the box I don't see an issue. If an occupancy sensor can be installed then I believe 404.2 needs to be addressed
 
Just curious as to what the switching requirements are,,,,,,,,, plain Jane off/on but there could be many scenarios

Are all 16 lights controlled from 6 locations and each contactor switches a bank of 8 at the same time. or is it two independant zones?

What is fixture wattage,HID,Incan,Fluor etc

dick
 
dicklaxt said:
Just curious as to what the switching requirements are,,,,,,,,, plain Jane off/on but there could be many scenarios

Are all 16 lights controlled from 6 locations and each contactor switches a bank of 8 at the same time.

What is fixture wattage,HID,Incan,Fluor etc

dick
Click to expand...

Just plain 3 and 4 way switches. 2 switches per door, 6 doors, 8 lights each switch. 400watt MH with quartz re-strike
 
dicklaxt said:
Just curious as to what the switching requirements are,,,,,,,,, plain Jane off/on but there could be many scenarios

Are all 16 lights controlled from 6 locations and each contactor switches a bank of 8 at the same time. or is it two independant zones?

What is fixture wattage,HID,Incan,Fluor etc

dick
Click to expand...

What would the above in red have to do with the requirements of 404.2(C)(2)?
 
ceb58 said:
Well, I am not sure it would apply since the lights are 240v but the control circuit that the switches are on will be 120v. The reason I brought up excpt. 2 is because the wiring and boxes will be surfaced mounted. I think that would be in line with the intent of the exception as to have unrestricted access to later install a grounded conductor if need be. But there again this is a control circuit.
Click to expand...

It may be splitting hairs but I see nothing in that section addresses the control voltage of 120 volts.

404.2(C) Switches Controlling Lighting Loads. Where switches
control lighting loads supplied by a grounded general purpose
branch circuit, the grounded circuit conductor for the con-
trolled lighting circuit shall be provided at the switch location.
Click to expand...
 
infinity said:
It may be splitting hairs but I see nothing in that section addresses the control voltage of 120 volts.

404.2(C) Switches Controlling Lighting Loads. Where switches
control lighting loads supplied by a grounded general purpose
branch circuit, the grounded circuit conductor for the con-
trolled lighting circuit shall be provided at the switch location.
Click to expand...
You can read that section as requiring the lighting circuit grounded conductor to be run to the switch location no matter what voltage the control circuit is. The section says that if you have a swtich that controls a lighting load, and if the lighting ciruit has a grounded conductor, then you must bring the lighting circuit grounded conductor to the switch location.
Click to expand...
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
infinity said:
It may be splitting hairs but I see nothing in that section addresses the control voltage of 120 volts.


You can read that section as requiring the lighting circuit grounded conductor to be run to the switch location no matter what voltage the control circuit is. The section says that if you have a swtich that controls a lighting load, and if the lighting ciruit has a grounded conductor, then you must bring the lighting circuit grounded conductor to the switch location.
Click to expand...

The lighting circuit in this case does not use a grounded conductor - just the control circuit does. The fact that teh control circuit uses a grounded conductor is what drives the complications. What if the control circuit were an ungrounded class 2 circuit? What if the control circuit were 240 VAC?
Click to expand...
 
kwired said:
The lighting circuit in this case does not use a grounded conductor - just the control circuit does. The fact that teh control circuit uses a grounded conductor is what drives the complications. What if the control circuit were an ungrounded class 2 circuit? What if the control circuit were 240 VAC?
Click to expand...
I missed the fact that the lighting circuit does not have a grounded conductor. If the lighting circuit does not have a grounded conductor, then no grounded conductor from the lighting circuit would be required at the switch location.

If the lighting circuit has a grounded conductor, then that grounded conductor must be extended to the switch location(s) no matter what the control voltage may be.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
I missed the fact that the lighting circuit does not have a grounded conductor. If the lighting circuit does not have a grounded conductor, then no grounded conductor from the lighting circuit would be required at the switch location.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's what I was getting at. The lighting is 240 volts.
 
We can split hairs but the art. states that
the grounded conductor for the controlled lighting circuit shall be provided at the switch.
Click to expand...

Now is the controlled lighting circuit the 120V circuit? I say yes or at least, IMO that is the intent.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
We can split hairs but the art. states that

Now is the controlled lighting circuit the 120V circuit? I say yes or at least, IMO that is the intent.
Click to expand...

You left out the first part in your quote, it says lighting loads which is why I said splitting hairs. You might be right about the intent. :)

404.2(C) Switches Controlling Lighting Loads. Where switches
control lighting loads supplied by a grounded general purpose
branch circuit, the grounded circuit conductor for the con-
trolled lighting circuit shall be provided at the switch location.
Click to expand...
 
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