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408 Panelboard Locations Not Allowed

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iwire

iwire

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Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: 408 Panelboard Locations Not Allowed

Originally posted by physis:
Well that's my point. I think a lot of woun't think to look in 240 for this.
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And that is just how I like it.
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physis

physis

Senior Member
Re: 408 Panelboard Locations Not Allowed

Yeah, I'm striking your vote Devil guy. :D

What in tarnation did I write in that post? :D
 
S

Sangre

Member
Location
Kentucky
Re: 408 Panelboard Locations Not Allowed

physis I favor your suggestion..unfortunately not all practicing electricians refer to the code in depth but many look for the "not permitted" and "permitted" sections of a code section.
And if not greatly familiar with the code as I have described, it is just as likely they would go to 408 as they would 240..perhaps only go to 408, not find a reference (as physis suggested) and hello bathroom panel. I don't feel redundancy is necessarily bad if it is logical. Thats my 2 pennies. :)
 
physis

physis

Senior Member
Re: 408 Panelboard Locations Not Allowed

It looks like the Yea's are ahead of the Ney's
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Bob's not gonna be happy about this.
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roger

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Re: 408 Panelboard Locations Not Allowed

Okay, I'll cast my NAY. :cool:

Roger
 
M

mc5w

Senior Member
Re: 408 Panelboard Locations Not Allowed

I have installed 2 section panelboards where the bottom section is strictly overcurrent devices and the upper section is strictly relays for lighting control. A box full of relays that may require troubleshooting has NO business being in a bathroom.

Please add a few other prohibited locations:

2. Closets
3. Outdoors and within 2 feet of the ground.
Exception #1: Metering centers shall be permitted at a lower elevation provided that the mounting height is permitted by the listing and all live parts are at an elevation at least 2 feet above ground.
Exception #2: Higher elevations or a freeze protected drain shall be used where in the judgment of the authority having jurisdiction drifting snow will be higher than the bottom of the enclosure.

Some of these prohibited locations only apply to mobile home parks but why should a mobile home park be such a special case? On the outside of a single family dwelling I can have live bare parts ZERO inches from the ground unless the inspector is making a 90.whatever judgement otherwise. If snow drifts in some area are such a bad problem then the inspector could make a 90.whatever judgement that a higher elevation would be needed. Likewise, an electrical utility in a place such as Minnesota or Alaska can have a requirement that meters and metering centers need to be mounted higher, even on a second floor porch. Thanks to automatic meter readind it does not matter how high a meter is.

Added a few repairs.

[ July 20, 2005, 02:06 AM: Message edited by: mc5w ]
 
physis

physis

Senior Member
Re: 408 Panelboard Locations Not Allowed

It would make sense to add other locations. :)

___________________________________________________________________________________________-

So. The only purpose here is to make the NEC easier to use.

I'm picking up this subtle vibe that the very experienced NEC users are completely opposed to the idea.

And the less experienced (me :) ) Think it's a good idea.

I'm pretty sure that CMP 9 will throw this right in the trash.

I wont say I don't see the other side cause I'll always remeber to look in 240 now and it's a lot more of a non issue to me than it was a week ago.

But.

It leaves a bad taste in my mouth realizing that one of the things that I think is just wrong about codes in general, (not just the NEC) that it's an insider's club sort of arrangement, is true.

If I'm right about how CMP 9 would view this it's pretty hard to believe that there really is any interest in making the NEC easier to use.

And the usabilty task group probably has a set of guide lines that limits their intrests and items like this would be outside those limits.

I think that's a fundamental flaw.

Edit: Grammer repair.

[ July 19, 2005, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: physis ]
 
physis

physis

Senior Member
Re: 408 Panelboard Locations Not Allowed

No better yet lets scrap it and start over from the beginning. Then all of us would have to learn all the code all over
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Come on Wayne. I know full well that's one of the hazards of improvement, and At least "I", that's me, think it's a worthy cause. :)

But that's just me.

Edit: Needed an adjustment.

[ July 20, 2005, 02:04 AM: Message edited by: physis ]
 
M

macmikeman

Senior Member
Location
Planet macmikeman
Re: 408 Panelboard Locations Not Allowed

quote from an earlier macmikeman post, " Stay tuned, pretty soon the only allowed place to mount a panelboard is in the house next door"
 
petersonra

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Re: 408 Panelboard Locations Not Allowed

a better amendment would be to require all electricians to have a machine searchable version of the code instead of a paper version.

this would have several major benefits.

1. no index would be required at all.

2. the nfpa would sell more cdrom versions which cost them much less to produce, but they charge more for, resulting in significantly more revenue for the organization.

3. the lives of many trees would be saved.
 
physis

physis

Senior Member
Re: 408 Panelboard Locations Not Allowed

I agree the CD will make a lot of concerns like this go away as it improves in the future. I don't have it yet but from what I can gather the searchability's not as good as it could be yet but I am looking forward to it getting better.

I'm a big fan of technology but I also like paper books a lot. Most paper's made of saw dust. I don't think there's a real shortage of that.
 
sandsnow

sandsnow

Senior Member
Location
Southern California
Re: 408 Panelboard Locations Not Allowed

Originally posted by physis:
I agree the CD will make a lot of concerns like this go away as it improves in the future. I don't have it yet but from what I can gather the searchability's not as good as it could be yet but I am looking forward to it getting better.

I'm a big fan of technology but I also like paper books a lot. Most paper's made of saw dust. I don't think there's a real shortage of that.
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You can have my paper codebook when you pry it from my cold dead hands. :p
 
physis

physis

Senior Member
Re: 408 Panelboard Locations Not Allowed

Yeah, as much as I hate code sometimes my book's a real good buddy. :)
 
physis

physis

Senior Member
Re: 408 Panelboard Locations Not Allowed

I like that Jim. That's a somewhat common NEC technique. :cool: Works fine for me as a better than down the middle compromise
 
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