480 v level 2 chargers

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Frank D

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Location
Los Angeles, CA
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Electrical project manager
Looking at multiple projects with 8-15 level 2 chargers, can not find any level 2 chargers with a 480 volt supply and a level 2 output. The only one I found has a 277 volt output.
Any sources anyone?
 
A level 2 EVSE needs to provide AC at a voltage that the EV's onboard charger can handle. Not sure many EVs can handle 277V, and I doubt any can handle 480V. I think you'll need to provide a 240V or 208V supply to each EVSE.

Cheers, Wayne
 
Was looking for level 2 chargers with an “input” 480 volt. Guessing they don’t exist due to the need to step down the voltage would make the unit too big.
When adding 12 chargers to an existing property, 480 is preferable, adding a transformer takes a lot of space for clearance etc.
 
Level 3 (tesla super chargers or similar) are the only ones. They make some from other countries that are not listed here. It is a pain. Art 625.60 limits the plug receptacle type to 250Vs and there wasn't much of a need to develop anything that can't be installed in homes. Thus we get mostly 2 pole 240V or 208V.

There are some 3ph 208 / 240V chargers.

480V / 277V still require it to be fastened in place.

625 is one of the worst code sections that, in my opinion, hampers innovation.
 
Frank D said:
Was looking for level 2 chargers with an “input” 480 volt. Guessing they don’t exist due to the need to step down the voltage would make the unit too big.
When adding 12 chargers to an existing property, 480 is preferable, adding a transformer takes a lot of space for clearance etc.
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They don’t exist because with level 2, the “charger” is in the vehicle. What you are calling a charger is “EVSE” which is simply a smart switch that passes line voltage to the vehicle.
 
hillbilly1 said:
Would that work with American charge stations and their ground fault detection? Or would European spec stations be needed?
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Good question, I don't think there is anything in the NEC intentionally limiting Level 2 chargers or anything else to 150V to ground, other than the residential limit and the required receptacles in 210.
There may be technical issues to look at but I think most of the stuff we get anymore is not made just for the US/Canada.
 
Elect117 said:
Level 3 (tesla super chargers or similar) are the only ones. They make some from other countries that are not listed here. It is a pain. Art 625.60 limits the plug receptacle type to 250Vs and there wasn't much of a need to develop anything that can't be installed in homes. Thus we get mostly 2 pole 240V or 208V.

There are some 3ph 208 / 240V chargers.

480V / 277V still require it to be fastened in place.

625 is one of the worst code sections that, in my opinion, hampers innovation.
Click to expand...
Thank you, i missed that section of the code, agree on hampering innovation.
 
Frank D said:
Thank you, i missed that section of the code, agree on hampering innovation.
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It is just silly too.

Forklift chargers are 480V 20A or 30A and that would be the same VA as a 240V 40A. (Assuming they are all 3ph). So why would the code require it to be fastened for the ev charger but not the forklift. Forklifts go on 20A and 30A 480V receptacles all the time. The risk is arguably less for the EV chargers

I just don't get it. Like a bunch of resi inspectors got together and made that rule up. And once it is put in the code, it is harder to change. You need real substantiation. You can't just tell them it is dumb lol.

And I say this because of the almost requirement in Cali for EV tractor / trailer trucks. It was so difficult to plan a style of mobile charging equipment. You practically need a exception ruling from the AHJ. So one could be wheeled around as a retrofit to existing cold storage buildings. Like while they are getting filled or emptied, they could dock to charging equipment or run the trailer off building power rather than truck power or gas generator. It wouldn't top them off but it could keep them from needing an on site generator incase their battery depleted while being off loaded. If a existing facility had a electric truck die while they were loading it they would be stuck with one of their docks being unusable until it could be towed to a charging facility. But all of this kind of also goes back to the code and tech not being where it needs to be for cali's goal of electric trucks.
 
ggunn said:
What does "fastened in place" mean? I mean, what needs it?
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Sorry, the NEC uses "fixed in place". I got jumbled. They are so similar in my mind.

But "Mounting means of an EVSE attached to a wall or surface with fasteners that require a tool to be removed."

So nothing on wheels / carts and nothing, by that definition, that could be cord and plug connected. Since cord is can't be used "As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure".
 
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Elect117 said:
Sorry, the NEC uses "fixed in place". I got jumbled. They are so similar in my mind.

But "Mounting means of an EVSE attached to a wall or surface with fasteners that require a tool to be removed."
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So it means that the charger itself needs to be securely mounted on something, correct?
 
ggunn said:
So it means that the charger itself needs to be securely mounted on something, correct?
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To me, that means the charger needs to be affixed to the building or similar support. And needs a fixed wiring method. Otherwise they would have called it one of the other ones. Like fastened or portable.
 
Elect117 said:
It is just silly too.

Forklift chargers are 480V 20A or 30A and that would be the same VA as a 240V 40A. (Assuming they are all 3ph). So why would the code require it to be fastened for the ev charger but not the forklift. Forklifts go on 20A and 30A 480V receptacles all the time. The risk is arguably less for the EV chargers

I just don't get it. Like a bunch of resi inspectors got together and made that rule up. And once it is put in the code, it is harder to change. You need real substantiation. You can't just tell them it is dumb lol.

And I say this because of the almost requirement in Cali for EV tractor / trailer trucks. It was so difficult to plan a style of mobile charging equipment. You practically need an exception ruling from the AHJ. So one could be wheeled around as a retrofit to existing cold storage buildings. Like while they are getting filled or emptied, they could dock to charging equipment or run the trailer off building power rather than truck power or gas generator. It wouldn't top them off but it could keep them from needing an on site generator incase their battery depleted while being off loaded. If an existing facility had an electric truck die while they were loading it they would be stuck with one of their docks being unusable until it could be towed to a charging facility. But all of this kind of also goes back to the code and tech not being where it needs to be for cali's goal of electric trucks.
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And political math. Politicians can promise the moon as long as their constituents keep the money flowing.
The energy to weight, ratio right now is about 100 to 1 for liquid fuel compared to battery for transportation. The electric infrastructure is 25-50 years (at best) behind the projections that are made by elected officials. It’s time to examine a realistic approach to smog reduction that can be advanced by hitting both ends of the spectrum. Cleaner liquid fuels, electric build out with localized energy production, cleaner natural gas generation etc. everybody driving a plug in sounds good, but it ain’t happening overnight.
 
Frank D said:
Looking at multiple projects with 8-15 level 2 chargers, can not find any level 2 chargers with a 480 volt supply and a level 2 output. The only one I found has a 277 volt output.
Any sources anyone?
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Not happening.

The acceptable range is 208V to 277V AC. And if you get more than a few percentage above 277V certain Tesla models crap out
(Tesla released a letter on this I could probably find somewhere). The J3400 standard is supposed to bring 277 VAC back from the brink, but this has yet to come to pass.

Thus, people end up putting transformers in -- a compromise for sure -- to buck the 480V down to 240V or so.
On the other hand there are as TON of affordable EV chargers that require a 480 volt supply. They're called L3 chargers or DCFC.

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On the low end you can probably go down to Level 2 at 100V AC without creating a problem, due to well Japan. It's the car that accepts the voltage and has the AC/DC converter. The specifications on various cars have a lower range, but they're likely to be just fine. They may have software that sets arbitrary upper and lower limits. I have some commercial EVSE that have limits also, and want to be fed an even tighter range.

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The EVSE is just a switch, or more properly a special purpose GFCI. The charger is in the vehicle so unless you're doing fleets it's best to stick to the narrow pathway.
 
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