4th year apprentice

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electricalperson said:
i work with a 4th year apprentice that thinks he knows everything. says hes not a helper or apprentice so he doesnt take orders from me. claims hes the fastest and the biggest money maker in the shop. hes tough to work with and second guesses everything i say or do.
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Is he like this with everyone he works with? If not, it's a matter of he doesn't respect you.
 
Easy fix.

Easy fix.

electricalperson said:
i work with a 4th year apprentice that thinks he knows everything. says hes not a helper or apprentice so he doesnt take orders from me. claims hes the fastest and the biggest money maker in the shop. hes tough to work with and second guesses everything i say or do. anyone have any experience with this and is this common? ive tried telling him the rolls of an apprentice no matter how many years they been doing it or how close until they get there license. its like talking to a brick wall and i dont know what to do anymore
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Don't stoop to his level, the way you make it seem is that he has a low self esteem. People like this must learn to follow before you can lead but maybe he will never lead because he does not know how to follow or at least pretend to follow and show some respect. I tell my employees all the time if your not open to listen to suggestions from others who have ideas or think you know it all get your own contractors license, operate your own business and i'll send your last check in the mail. I only need team players on my payroll. Anyone can be replaced. Most guys who start in the trade like that are the same ones who can't understand why they cannot pass the exam. Year after year after year. Always have the same sad story. Oh i missed the exam by a point or 2. Yea sure.
 
It is like someone else already wrote , give him enough rope and he will hang himself. Those guys out there who know it all are the one,s who in reality have no clue as to what they are really doing.
 
i guess theres people like this in every field. in the funny sayings thread someone said "no one is smarter than a 4th year apprentice yet no one is dumber than a first year journeyman." the same goes for the medical field and i guess anything else out there.

i guess people get cocky and grow big heads from the bosses letting them out to do stuff on there own once or twice. get a journeyman license and get a green helper and go wire a house with them on your first day as a new licensed electrician and see what happens.
 
electricalperson said:
i work with a 4th year apprentice that thinks he knows everything. says hes not a helper or apprentice so he doesnt take orders from me. claims hes the fastest and the biggest money maker in the shop. hes tough to work with and second guesses everything i say or do. anyone have any experience with this and is this common? ive tried telling him the rolls of an apprentice no matter how many years they been doing it or how close until they get there license. its like talking to a brick wall and i dont know what to do anymore
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If he is telling you what to do (and most of the time he is right) and your running the job. I would call the shop and tell them this guy might be ready to run work.

I use to work with a complete dip. I learned from others you don't call in the shop complaining about this guy. That guy had some kind of connection with upper management. Some times the best way to handle conflict is to avoid it. That dip now runs work.
 
khixxx said:
If he is telling you what to do (and most of the time he is right) and your running the job. I would call the shop and tell them this guy might be ready to run work.

I use to work with a complete dip. I learned from others you don't call in the shop complaining about this guy. That guy had some kind of connection with upper management. Some times the best way to handle conflict is to avoid it. That dip now runs work.
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i dont really like the idea of having an apprentice running a job. personally i think a person with a license is the guy incharge. doesnt matter if he sucks at running jobs or not if hes not good at it he will get fired.
 
electricalperson said:
i guess people get cocky and grow big heads from the bosses letting them out to do stuff on there own once or twice.
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Is this kid really good or is he just full of himself and thinks he's good?

I worked with a kid of about 23 once that really was very good. His whole life revolved around doing electrical work. Even after finishing trade school he would study every night. He spent all his money on tools and test equipment. This guy wasn't a know it all because he was always asking questions and trying to learn more. The only problem I had was that I didn't always have the answers ( had to tell him I spent my younger years chasing women and drinking wiskey, normal stuff).

If I were you I would see just how good this guy really is. Give him jobs that he can do by himself and then inspect them. I know you have to supervise the guy but that doesn't mean you have to hold his hand. Give him as much responsibility as he can stand and hold him accountable. And work the dog doo out of him. If a guy is giving you to much lip it could be because you are not working him hard enough, put some pressure on.
 
chris kennedy said:
IMO this is the only answer here. Let the office send him out to run his own job.
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couldn't have said it better. I was going to say give him the blue prints and say what do you want me to do now. 9 times out of 10 they'll say " Hey that's your job not mine" and if they do take the prints treat him the same way he treats you. Some guys have no balls when it come to "driving the bus" its easier for them to sit back and criticize after you came up with a way to do something.

But I do feel for you. Ive worked with guys like this in the past and if giving them the prints for a day doesnt work, and the office doesnt handle it Ill just tell him that although you appreciate his enthusiasm there can only be one person in charge. And tell him that there will always be more than one way to skin a cat and that as a group you guys need to follow one idea so productivity wont suffer. And if he still doesnt listen just tell him to shut the f%$# up and that if he was so great the boss would have put him in charge.

The fact that he blows alot of smoke up his butt is just a clear sign that he is insecure with himself and maybe his daddy didnt pay any attention to him.

But if it were me I would tell the boss or forman my situation and that it is making you not like working there anymore. And tell them that they should have a talk with him. Hey man if you cant go to the boss with this maybe its a sign to move on to better pastures. Why does this guy always work with you any way? Does your boss know how you feel? You shouldnt have to deal with this crap anyway. And nor should it come to fist a cuffs. Life is to short to be unhappy.
 
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