5' rule for water pipe as Grounding Electrode

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76nemo said:
Read .122, and get back to me.
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Do you mean 250.122. I would like to use 250.122 to bond water pipes that enter the house in plastic, but according to 250.104(a)(1) i have to use 260.66 anyways.
 
rustyryan34 said:
Do you mean 250.122. I would like to use 250.122 to bond water pipes that enter the house in plastic, but according to 250.104(a)(1) i have to use 260.66 anyways.
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I am guilty of PWI, please forgive me. "Enter the house in plastic"? Let's step back a minute. If you have to use #4, than it's a local amendment.
 
76nemo said:
I am guilty of PWI, please forgive me. "Enter the house in plastic"? Let's step back a minute. If you have to use #4, than it's a local amendment.
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You have to use #4 from the chart on 250.66 but if you use 250.66(a) yes we cango down to #6. Our company just waste the money for #4.
 
Our local is fine with using the water service as the GEC. I use the water main and pop two ground rods as well, argue with that one AHJ:cool:

I just read that my local AHJ died yesterday in our local paper. God bless you Chuck/Charlie. Thank you for your services:smile:
 
76nemo said:
Why are you worried about bonding the water main then?
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This is where i am getting confussed, I dont want to run a wire to the water pipe to bond them, but do i have to according to 250.104(A)(1)?
 
_All_ grounding electrodes must be used. This means that if you happen to have an underground water pipe that qualifies as a grounding electrode, you _must_ use it.

When you size a GEC to an underground water pipe, you need to use one table.

When you size an EGC, you need to use a different table, with the exception of water piping systems. For metallic water pipes, you must use the GEC sizing rules, even if the water pipes do not include grounding electrodes.

-Jon
 
winnie said:
_All_ grounding electrodes must be used. This means that if you happen to have an underground water pipe that qualifies as a grounding electrode, you _must_ use it.

When you size a GEC to an underground water pipe, you need to use one table.

When you size an EGC, you need to use a different table, with the exception of water piping systems. For metallic water pipes, you must use the GEC sizing rules, even if the water pipes do not include grounding electrodes.

-Jon
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Thank you I understand now.
 
Then you're one of the few - I still don't understand why we use table 250.66 instead of 250.122. :D

Seems like this changed somewhat in the 2008, but I don't recall exactly what the change was off the top of my head.
 
George Stolz said:
Then you're one of the few - I still don't understand why we use table 250.66 instead of 250.122. :D

Seems like this changed somewhat in the 2008, but I don't recall exactly what the change was off the top of my head.
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I mean I understand where in the NEC it says I have to do it, but I dont agree with sizing the wire off of 250.66.

I'm sorry I havent look thru the 2008 book yet, I am taking my journeyman's test in a couple months and the test is off the 2005 book so im trying not to get to confused.
 
rustyryan34 said:
You have to use #4 from the chart on 250.66 but if you use 250.66(a) yes we cango down to #6. Our company just waste the money for #4.
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Not necessarily - depending on your AHJ's read of 250.64B it could mean a few bucks more in material for #4 or a few bucks more in labor and materials for #6 to put it in conduit or armored cable. One you could staple bare in most places the other would be subject to whatever the AHJ's mood on "physical damage" or "severe" is. It is a trade off that many companies make into policy, or depending on the situation.

As for the OP if it quacks like a duck.... If it qualifies as an electrode it is one.

As for hot water and gas - a water heater makes a great place to bond for many if both gas and hot are there.... A funky thing I have noticed. And there are some who'll disagree.
shall be bonded to the service equipment enclosure, the grounded conductor at the service, the grounding electrode conductor where of sufficient size, or to the one or more grounding electrodes used.
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That wording was added in '02 I think??? Note it doesn't say sub-panel in there anywhere.... So the following makes little sense to include unless the circuit came from a main panel, and a little contradictory.
The equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that may energize the piping shall be permitted to serve as the bonding means.
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This is the other thing that confused me is the bonding of the gas line, does this make sense to you, Last summer all the inspectors in our area went to some classes and they came back says we had to bond the gas line with #4 wire and it had to be within the first five feet of coming into the build. Our boss just goes with it so I dont know what they base this on.
 
Perhaps they are thinking of CSST (the yellow flex gas line). It's listing instructions can require a bonding conductor, due to failures of those style lines in the field in lightning events leading to fires. However, there's no NEC requirement to do so, and since it's not electrical equipment, we are not beholden to apply 110.3(B) to bond it, IMO.

It's not electrical, it's plumbing.
 
E57,

What's the problem with bonding a non-GE water pipe to the EGC in a

circuit that comes from a sub-panel, it's the same way we would ground, for

example, a compressed air line or heating system with metal duct.

Now if the air line was isolated at the compressor by a flexable non-conducting

segment of pipe, it could be bonded using a bonding jumper sized accordingly.
 
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