50% copper tariff just imposed

infinity said:
Big Orange for 12/2 NM cable here today is at:
1000'= $456 ($.46/foot)
250'=$129 ($.52/foot)
100'= $99 ($.99/foot)
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Menards is $110AR on 12/2 250'. Menards is always the cheapest anywhere on NM, UF, and THHN. But their AL is about twice that of the supply houses for some reason. Menards never dropped their AL wire prices from covid levels.
 
HD has been locking up wire for some time now at least since the huge price jump during the pandemic. We had 1000ft spools of 12/2 going for over a grand at the time. They had several flat carts of wire just walking out right past the registers. Never did hear if they caught the gang of five doin it. This store was in a traditionally low crime area. So likely this would be the story again if wire is not currently locked up. We also had some really dumb persons pulling "copper" ground rods up. From my view I would say "get a job" is would be less work than trying to pull up installed 8 ft rods.

Might be time to stock up before the price skyrocket again. Traditionally these types of increase doesn't equate to a commensurate increase in retail price but usually seen as a que to gouge. Seen often like when they actually reduced tax on gas the price never dropped by the reduction of tax, a 25 cent drop in tax only at best saw a 10 cent drop in price, and the reverse actually saw multiple points increase above the tax rate increase.
 
Fred B said:
HD has been locking up wire for some time now at least since the huge price jump during the pandemic. We had 1000ft spools of 12/2 going for over a grand at the time. They had several flat carts of wire just walking out right past the registers. Never did hear if they caught the gang of five doin it. This store was in a traditionally low crime area. So likely this would be the story again if wire is not currently locked up. We also had some really dumb persons pulling "copper" ground rods up. From my view I would say "get a job" is would be less work than trying to pull up installed 8 ft rods.

Might be time to stock up before the price skyrocket again. Traditionally these types of increase doesn't equate to a commensurate increase in retail price but usually seen as a que to gouge. Seen often like when they actually reduced tax on gas the price never dropped by the reduction of tax, a 25 cent drop in tax only at best saw a 10 cent drop in price, and the reverse actually saw multiple points increase above the tax rate increase.
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A few years ago I got a call from one of my customers who has an amateur radio license. Some copper thief had pulled an 8 foot ground rod out of the ground, and left it. I guess they then figured out it was only copper plated. We had no idea how the thief got it out of the ground. It was bent in several places. He also took a wire antenna that was about 100' of #14 copperweld wire, which has a steel core. The customer had already replaced the antenna and pounded a new ground rod in, with the top about a foot below ground. He had me cad weld the new ground wire to it.
He showed me some copperweld wire. It was pretty obvious it was not normal copper wire. I have no idea if a junk yard would take that stuff.
 
robertd said:
A few years ago I got a call from one of my customers who has an amateur radio license. Some copper thief had pulled an 8 foot ground rod out of the ground, and left it. I guess they then figured out it was only copper plated. We had no idea how the thief got it out of the ground. It was bent in several places. He also took a wire antenna that was about 100' of #14 copperweld wire, which has a steel core. The customer had already replaced the antenna and pounded a new ground rod in, with the top about a foot below ground. He had me cad weld the new ground wire to it.
He showed me some copperweld wire. It was pretty obvious it was not normal copper wire. I have no idea if a junk yard would take that stuff.
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I just scrapped some copper and brass since the price shot up. The recyclers and junk places put a magnet on stuff to check for steel. They probably buy steel, but the price is by the ton and not per pound like copper.
 
robertd said:
A few years ago I got a call from one of my customers who has an amateur radio license. Some copper thief had pulled an 8 foot ground rod out of the ground, and left it. I guess they then figured out it was only copper plated. We had no idea how the thief got it out of the ground. It was bent in several places. He also took a wire antenna that was about 100' of #14 copperweld wire, which has a steel core. The customer had already replaced the antenna and pounded a new ground rod in, with the top about a foot below ground. He had me cad weld the new ground wire to it.
He showed me some copperweld wire. It was pretty obvious it was not normal copper wire. I have no idea if a junk yard would take that stuff.
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They will, but at steel prices and not as copper items.
 
BarryO said:
I heard a news story that said there are only 2 copper smelting plants currently operating in the U.S. Restarting a mothballed plant is at least a year and a half, and constructing a new one takes a decade. And yes, who wants to spend those billions when the free trade agreement we had with Chile for copper could be re-instated on a whim sometime in the future.
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Close, there are only 3 smelting plants left operating, 2 in AZ and one in UT. I don’t believe there are any mothballed smelters, they are incredibly harmful to the environment and once shuttered, take decades to clean up.

There are then a dozen or so refining facilities around the country (mostly in the southwest) where the raw copper from the smelters is refined to be useful. Those are the ones that can get mothballed and restarted. There is an Asarco refinery in TX that was recently mothballed and is under review to be restarted. But they can’t refine the metal from a smelter if all the smelter output is already spoken for.
 
There is a copper mine not too far from me. The Union was on strike for at least 10 years, so long they had their own shack at the entrance so they could picket out of the weather. The picketers are gone now, and I don’t think the mine ever reopened. Never see any trucks come out, or any activity.
 
robertd said:
A few years ago I got a call from one of my customers who has an amateur radio license. Some copper thief had pulled an 8 foot ground rod out of the ground, and left it. I guess they then figured out it was only copper plated. We had no idea how the thief got it out of the ground. It was bent in several places. He also took a wire antenna that was about 100' of #14 copperweld wire, which has a steel core. The customer had already replaced the antenna and pounded a new ground rod in, with the top about a foot below ground. He had me cad weld the new ground wire to it.
He showed me some copperweld wire. It was pretty obvious it was not normal copper wire. I have no idea if a junk yard would take that stuff.
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A local theater company signed a lease on a new location, but before they could move in thieves stole the copper tubing from the HVAC compressors as well as the OH service conductors from the pole to the building about 100' away. A clerk at a nearby convenience store saw the thieves take the conductors; they had a bucket truck and POCO uniforms.
 
FWIW, Eaton Corp just announced the closing of its automotive Valve plant here. Moving what's left of it out of country. The Gear division will remain.

The plant is 50 years old with labor significantly less in other countries. This was not an overnight decision.

I listened to an NPR summary of how tariffs are imposed on products, and it is a convoluted mess. I doubt it has gotten simpler lately so these imported valves may or may not be hit with a tariff. Even so, cheaper to import.
 
This is yet another illustration of "if all one has is a hammer everything looks like a nail".
 
At least try something new isn’t insanity. Current system wasn’t working and the definition of sanity is to do the same thing and expecting different results.

Not saying one’s better than the other, but you won’t know until you do it and experts don’t know anything either.
 
AC\DC said:
At least try something new isn’t insanity. Current system wasn’t working and the definition of sanity is to do the same thing and expecting different results.

Not saying one’s better than the other, but you won’t know until you do it and experts don’t know anything either.
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I suppose you meant to say insanity, but that is a pop culture "definition" that no one in mental health care will attest to. Personally, I think it is insane to just try something to see if it works when it has the potential for bringing global trade to a screeching halt.
 
It’s also insanity to watch something degrade and do nothing- so either way you slice it it’s messed up- also who cares about mental health care “professionals” there not god and can’t fix there own life’s while telling us what’s right- broad brush- but so was the last comment
 
AC\DC said:
At least try something new isn’t insanity. Current system wasn’t working and the definition of sanity is to do the same thing and expecting different results.

Not saying one’s better than the other, but you won’t know until you do it and experts don’t know anything either.
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Not new, been tried before, didn't go well.
en.m.wikipedia.org

Smoot–Hawley Tariff Act - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
AC\DC said:
It’s also insanity to watch something degrade and do nothing- so either way you slice it it’s messed up- also who cares about mental health care “professionals” there not god and can’t fix there own life’s while telling us what’s right- broad brush- but so was the last comment
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That old saw about that "definition of insanity" is just plain nonsense, but you can define it any way you want, I guess. Anything else I could say would be veering into politics (speaking of insanity), so I'll just leave it lying there like a dead pig rotting in the midday sun. :D
 
ggunn said:
That old saw about that "definition of insanity" is just plain nonsense, but you can define it any way you want, I guess. Anything else I could say would be veering into politics (speaking of insanity), so I'll just leave it lying there like a dead pig rotting in the midday sun. :D
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I've always hated that "definition of insanity" saying, it's just completely false, makes no sense, isn't even clever...
 
hillbilly1 said:
But that wasn’t in response to tariffs brought on by other nations. It was tariffs to stifle competition. So other nations tariffs are good, our retaliatory tariffs are bad?
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Many (most?) of "our" tariffs are not retaliatory, at least not in degree.
 
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