5000 sf mansion rewire

[renosteinke]

Kwired, I've often wonered where the "can do" attitude of the Kennedy years went.

The practice of grooving the walls, burying your wires, and patching what remains is fairly common in the "Old World." It's no accident that Flex is a German company - or that their focus is on tools for the stoneworking trades. (Bosch also makes one, but they don't import it here).

I often saw the same task performed using a chisel on an SDS roto-hammer. Not nearly as neat a slot!

You have great depth control with these saws, so damage to whatever's under the plaster should be minimal.

Both you and Haskins raise a good point about dust ... and, with the possible lead and asbestos issues, tenting the area is a must. There's a lot to be said for a good vacuum; holding the hose next to the tool makes a huge difference!

Personally, I fudge a bit on the dust issue - and "EPA" compliant vacuum is anywhere from $400 to $1000. Instead, I am happy with a HEPA bag and a HEPA filter in my 'drywall' model Shop-vac. Indeed, I had been using this rig a decade before the EPA ever thought of "RRP."

In addition, I have another Shop-vac product - an air filter that cleans the shop air. Looking like a small jet engine, this thing removes a lot of dust from the air. You can set it up to clean the air as you exhaust it from the tented area, ensuring plenty of fresh air while you work.

Don't overlook the need for air in the 'tented' area. A few years back my area had a guy killed by the CO generated by the concrete saw he was using in a basement. It doesn't take long!

Patching? Well, there's a reason plasterers are known as a 'skilled trade.'

Now, I'm going to voice an opinion that's sure to stir the pot:
If every tool on your truck says "Klein," you're not a contractor; you're just a hired hand.

That is .... look in my truck, and you'll find a minimal kit for patching drywall, a few tools for cutting wood, even some roofing cement. An angle grinder and a pop-rivet gun. Even some 'gardening' tools. You'll find tarps and poles and tape and drop cloths, brooms and even a trash can ... all sorts of stuff to control the mess.

IMO, if you're a contractor, it falls to you to see the job through until it's completely finished. If that means you have to bring in someone to patch & paint, so be it.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Personally, I fudge a bit on the dust issue - and "EPA" compliant vacuum is anywhere from $400 to $1000. Instead, I am happy with a HEPA bag and a HEPA filter in my 'drywall' model Shop-vac. Indeed, I had been using this rig a decade before the EPA ever thought of "RRP."

a solution. around $625.

http://eparrphepavacuum.com/

the fine for noncompliance.

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/0/1146E74C2C12B0F8852579D70069ADCC

$1,500 $5,558 $10,000

this here is the EPA, the most powerful handgun in the world...
it can blow your head clean off...
well....... did i fine five times, or six?
do you feel lucky, punk? well, DO YOU?

 

[renosteinke]

Fulthrottle,

I fully expected someone to chime in with that "gee, the penalties are ..." line of disdain and scorn.

I only ask: Where was this righteous indignation when an earlier poster opined that you need not pay any heed to the RRP requirements? Where was all this expert advice earlier in this thread, prior to my bringing the matter into the discussion?

I've started several threads here, drawing attention to the need for RRP certification .... only to be met with dismissal, a 'we never need to worry about that' mentality.

I don't think one guys comment ("Where do you practice law") was much help.

Yea, it sure is easy to tell the world how wrong I am - especially when I begin my statement flatly stating that I'm breaking the rules. I just don't see the same standard applied across the board.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Yea, it sure is easy to tell the world how wrong I am - especially when I begin my statement flatly stating that I'm breaking the rules. I just don't see the same standard applied across the board.

nowhere did i say you were wrong.

i did not say to the whole world, or even the readers on this here forum,
that you were wrong....

i just asked if you felt lucky.....:angel:

i too, have an "unlucky" vacuum.. the older festool vacuums weren't
grandfathered in, even tho they use the same design and filter media.

so, is it safe? i think so. will it get me fined? i think so.

if i have a job where i need compliance will i buy a $750 festool vacuum
that is compliant? i think so. actually, the customer will... i'll put it in the
bid, along with all other job related costs.

the $625 model doesn't have the filter shaker to keep the fines shaken off
the hepa filters.... and all it has to do is save me one filter change to pay
for the difference.

i probably oughta get certified... i looked, and it's a one day deal, couple
hundred bucks, you leave with the certification in your hot little hand....
and there is a class thursday morning, 8 miles from me.

thanks for the heads up... i didn't realize the penalties that can run on
this one, until i looked..... and i have a down to the studs kitchen remodel
later on this week....

PS... you seem pretty mad.... if you need to be angry with me for my
remarks, feel free to do so, but i'm not giving a lock of my hair for a
voodoo doll... sorry....

 

[renosteinke]

Fulthrottle, I apologize, and have taken a 'chill pill.'

If I was mad at anyone, the comments that fueled my passion, it was the comments over time I've received on this topic. You just brought it all into a sharp focus.

We can't have an intelligent discussion where ignorance is the rule- yet some folks seem to consider willful ignorance preferable to making informed choices.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Fulthrottle,

I fully expected someone to chime in with that "gee, the penalties are ..." line of disdain and scorn.

I only ask: Where was this righteous indignation when an earlier poster opined that you need not pay any heed to the RRP requirements? Where was all this expert advice earlier in this thread, prior to my bringing the matter into the discussion?

I've started several threads here, drawing attention to the need for RRP certification .... only to be met with dismissal, a 'we never need to worry about that' mentality.

I don't think one guys comment ("Where do you practice law") was much help.

Yea, it sure is easy to tell the world how wrong I am - especially when I begin my statement flatly stating that I'm breaking the rules. I just don't see the same standard applied across the board.

Guess you missed post #5.

What I meant by "practice law" was understood by most if not everyone else.

If you need to speak at or about me please do not do it in the third person. Call me out by name. I have big shoulders.

Stick around and read more. You are not the first to be called out.

Big girl panties. :lol: Don't take this place to seriously!

 

[kwired]

They are NOT going to want to live in the house while this work is being done, and if lead or asbestos is discovered they will probably not be allowed to live in the house. To do this job right the interior should be gutted and started again from scratch. If they are not willing or able to do that, you will have to do the job time and material. If they insist on a quote, figure absolutely the worst case and then double or triple it. Also put in plenty of verbiage about unforeseeable circumstances such as asbestos, structural defects, and lead paint adding to the costs. I have worked on both types of jobs. The person that gutted the house actually saved money and ended up with a much nicer house. Plumbing, telephone, and data cabling was also updated at the same time.

Presence of lead or asbestos are not reason to make someone move out. If there is a risk of them ingesting airborn particles is where it becomes a problem. Asbestos I am not quite as certain about, but lead is in almost every building built before 1978(or somthing real close to that) Have you seen mass movements to either remove all the lead or get the people out of these homes? No. Simply covering wall with non lead base paint is acceptable for general protection, the problem is when doing construction related activities where you are cutting through the wall finish and disturbing the lead that otherwise was covered up.

Kwired, I've often wonered where the "can do" attitude of the Kennedy years went.

The practice of grooving the walls, burying your wires, and patching what remains is fairly common in the "Old World." It's no accident that Flex is a German company - or that their focus is on tools for the stoneworking trades. (Bosch also makes one, but they don't import it here).

I often saw the same task performed using a chisel on an SDS roto-hammer. Not nearly as neat a slot!

You have great depth control with these saws, so damage to whatever's under the plaster should be minimal.

Both you and Haskins raise a good point about dust ... and, with the possible lead and asbestos issues, tenting the area is a must. There's a lot to be said for a good vacuum; holding the hose next to the tool makes a huge difference!

Personally, I fudge a bit on the dust issue - and "EPA" compliant vacuum is anywhere from $400 to $1000. Instead, I am happy with a HEPA bag and a HEPA filter in my 'drywall' model Shop-vac. Indeed, I had been using this rig a decade before the EPA ever thought of "RRP."

In addition, I have another Shop-vac product - an air filter that cleans the shop air. Looking like a small jet engine, this thing removes a lot of dust from the air. You can set it up to clean the air as you exhaust it from the tented area, ensuring plenty of fresh air while you work.

Don't overlook the need for air in the 'tented' area. A few years back my area had a guy killed by the CO generated by the concrete saw he was using in a basement. It doesn't take long!

Patching? Well, there's a reason plasterers are known as a 'skilled trade.'

Now, I'm going to voice an opinion that's sure to stir the pot:
If every tool on your truck says "Klein," you're not a contractor; you're just a hired hand.

That is .... look in my truck, and you'll find a minimal kit for patching drywall, a few tools for cutting wood, even some roofing cement. An angle grinder and a pop-rivet gun. Even some 'gardening' tools. You'll find tarps and poles and tape and drop cloths, brooms and even a trash can ... all sorts of stuff to control the mess.

IMO, if you're a contractor, it falls to you to see the job through until it's completely finished. If that means you have to bring in someone to patch & paint, so be it.

I guess I just don't see the point of grooving a hollow wall when you can fish it. Might make the installation of cables go easier but requires a lot of work from somebody to repair all of it. Sometimes you can't fish and need to make a hole someplace, if things work out you may be able to make a hole where you need a switch or outlet and there is less patching or put it in a place where it is acceptable to put the switch or outlet.

I have repaired plaster and drywall- plaster is not as easy to do and have the repair be unnoticeable when all done, and if you cut through the lath you will need something behind it for strength and support you can't just fill it with mud and hope it lasts - because it will no last long at all.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Fulthrottle, I apologize, and have taken a 'chill pill.'

If I was mad at anyone, the comments that fueled my passion, it was the comments
over time I've received on this topic. You just brought it all into a sharp focus.

We can't have an intelligent discussion where ignorance is the rule- yet some folks
seem to consider willful ignorance preferable to making informed choices.

i figured it was monday, and someone had stomped on your pet bunny rabbit or something.

i'd not bothered to investigate, but it's $265 for the cert, $300 to have your biz licensed,
and then a decent vacuum...... in calif you don't have to test, you just have to assume
that lead is present, and act accordingly.

it seems pretty minimal, what is required. i got the basic 4 hour asbestos training when
i worked DWP, and was gonna pull the full certification, as an asbestos certified electrical
mechanic is of value there, but then i had an attack of sanity and quit..... :roll:

i'll find out thursday what the full drill is, but i've been doing most of it for the last 6 years
anyway.... got respirators, got purple cartridges, got bunny suits, etc., and when i've had
to curtain off an area, i leave my hepa vac running with a 2 1/2" hose on the discharge port
running outside the building, pulling air from the containment area... it's a couple hundred
CFM, and i'm not abating asbestos, just dust control.

everyone gets so twizzled about stuff.... this link is scattergood generating station,
behind LAX, next to the ocean..... the entire building, a city block long, 150' high,
is made of 3/8" corrugated sheets of...... pure asbestos....

http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/nqWi...LsrFkw7yJydY7ssgLiyXCA#t4AFSl17Ht6vUUuCbI6Xcw

abate THAT!