518 change to include Supermarkets

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JJWalecka

Senior Member
Location
New England
I'm sure that Supermarkets, large chain Hardware stores and the like have been proposed to be included long ago.

518.1 Scope Except for the assembly occupancies explicitly covered by 520.1, this article covers all buildings or portion of buildings or structures designed or intended for gathering together of 100 or more persons for such purposes as deliberation, worship, entertainment, eating, drinking, amusement, awaiting transportation, or similar purposes.

518.2 General Classifications.

(A) Examples. Assembly occupancies shall include, but not be limited to, the following:
Armories, Assembly hall, Auditoriums, Bowling lanes, Club rooms, Conference rooms, Courtrooms, Dance halls, Dining and drinking facilities, Exhibition halls, Gymnasiums, Mortuary chapels, Multipurpose rooms, Museums, Places of awaiting transportation, Places of religious worship, Pool rooms, Restaurants, Skating rinks

Proposal is 518 shall include Supermarkets, Large chain stores of _____ square footage, and the like.

I'm not sure how to word the proposal. I am thinking along the lines of large chain hardware stores (Orange), and large supermarkets ( red green stop light)

I have seen some branch circuits using nonmetallic sheathed cable installed through out the listed facilities. It seems to make sense to me seeing that those facilities would fit the requirements.

Comments and feedback from the professionals here would be appreciated.


Justin J. Walecka
 

JJWalecka

Senior Member
Location
New England
I was not aware of the November deadline. I never thought of making a purposal before.

Just curious how others felt about it. Perhaps I should have posted the discussion in another area.

Justin W.
 

JJWalecka

Senior Member
Location
New England
Ryan_618

Where can I find more information regarding mercantile occupancies installations? Thank you for your feedback.

Justin J. Walecka
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
JJWalecka said:
I am thinking along the lines of large chain hardware stores (Orange), and large supermarkets ( red green stop light)

I have seen some branch circuits using nonmetallic sheathed cable installed through out the listed facilities. It seems to make sense to me seeing that those facilities would fit the requirements.
'
Justin I am very familiar with the 'Stop Light' stores, work in them at least once a week. I have done two from the ground up.

One NM one MC, that was before the 2002 NEC changed and removed NM from commercial ceilings, now even though MA amended that rule the stores are still going MC.

As for your original question in my mind a place of assembly is one where people are densely packed as in a movie theater or restaurant.

A place like HD or S&S does not get that packed, there is a lot of open area compared to the number of people.

If we just went with the number of people that may be in the building pretty much every large commercial building would be a place of assembly.

JMO, Bob
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
iwire said:
'


As for your original question in my mind a place of assembly is one where people are densely packed as in a movie theater or restaurant.

:eek:
You should come to NJ on 12/24 and do a little shopping...or any of the big blue or orange boxes on any given Saturday morning :D
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
celtic said:
:eek:
You should come to NJ on 12/24 and do a little shopping...or any of the big blue or orange boxes on any given Saturday morning :D

Yeah I know. :)

But when it looks crowed it still is not as densely packed as a auditorium.
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
iwire said:
Yeah I know. :)

But when it looks crowed it still is not as densely packed as a auditorium.

Some of them people in big blue/orange are pretty dense!
 

JJWalecka

Senior Member
Location
New England
Iwire, I now realize, the thought given to the difference between dense and the amount of people loitering. It makes sense. Thank you for your time.



Celtic "Some of them people in big blue/orange are pretty dense!" LOL!


Justin J. Walecka
 

JJWalecka

Senior Member
Location
New England
Mercantile occupancies

Mercantile occupancies

I have been doing some research on mercantile occupancies. Unless I am mistaken, mercantile occupancies could be included as a place of assembly.


http://www.legis.nd.gov/information/acdata/html/..\pdf\24-02-

Electrical wiring Standards

Chapter 24-02-01

General Conditions and Electrical Wiring Standards

Article 24 01
Section 36.4.2

24-02-01-04 Places of assembly
This section covers all building structures, ore portions of buildings, designed or intended for the assembly of one hundred or more persons.

PLACES OF ASSEMBLE INCLUDE: assembly halls, auditoriums, including auditoriums in schools, MERCANTILE, business and other occupancies, exhibition halls, armories, dinning facilities including restaurants, church chapels, dance halls, mortuary chapels, museums, skating rinks, gymnasiums, and multipurpose rooms, bowling lanes, pool rooms, club rooms, drinking establishments, and conference rooms.

Page 6

Mercantile, MERCANTILE OCCUPANCIES include stores markets and other rooms, buildings or structures for the DISPLAY and SALE OF MERCHANDISE

Mercantile occupancies include the following
Auction rooms, department stores, drug stores, shopping centers, and supermarkets.

Of ce, storage and service facilities incidental to the sale of merchandise and located in the same building are included with mercantile occupancy.

Page 17

In the Occupant load factor table

It states

?Mercantile use (including Malls)?


Page 20

Am I wrong in thinking that Malls, Supermarkets, and Retail Stores sholud be considered a place of assembly.

Perhaps I am over thinking.

Justin J. Walecka
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
JJWalecka said:
Am I wrong in thinking that Malls, Supermarkets, and Retail Stores sholud be considered a place of assembly.

Perhaps I am over thinking.

Justin J. Walecka

Justin for what it's worth to you here is the handbook info. It references supper markets directly and NFPA 101 Life Safety Code.

Article 518 applies to places of assembly designed or intended for 100 or more persons. Article 518 would apply, for example, to a church chapel or auditorium for occupancy of 100 or more persons, its capacity determined by the methods for occupancy population capacity in accordance with NFPA 101, Life Safety Code. Article 518 does not apply to a supermarket, even though a supermarket may contain 100 or more persons, because a supermarket is not specifically designed or intended for the assembly of persons, nor is it considered to be an auditorium. Article 518 does not apply to an office building or a school building, even though such buildings, as a rule, are designed for occupancy by 100 or more persons. Article 518 does, however, apply to assembly halls, restaurants, and so on, within office or school buildings if these parts of the building are designed or intended for the assembly of 100 or more persons.


The following information for determining new assembly occupancy capacity is extracted from NFPA 101, Life Safety Code:

12.1.7 Occupant Load.

12.1.7.1 The occupant load, in number of persons for whom means of egress and other provisions are required, shall be determined on the basis of the occupant load factors of Table 7.3.1.2 [shown here as commentary Table 5.4] that are characteristic of the use of the space or shall be determined as the maximum probable population of the space under consideration, whichever is greater. In areas not in excess of 10,000 ft2 (930 m2), the occupant load shall not exceed one person in 5 ft2 (0.46 m2); in areas in excess of 10,000 ft2 (930 m2), the occupant load shall not exceed one person in 7 ft2 (0.65 m2).

7.3.1 Occupant Load.

7.3.1.1 The total capacity of the means of egress for any story, balcony, tier, or other occupied space shall be sufficient for the occupant load thereof.

7.3.1.2* The occupant load in any building or portion thereof shall be not less than the number of persons determined by dividing the floor area assigned to that use by the occupant load factor for that use as specified in Table 7.3.1.2. Where both gross and net area figures are given for the same occupancy, calculations shall be made by applying the gross area figure to the gross area of the portion of the building devoted to the use for which the gross area figure is specified and by applying the net area figure to the net area of the use for which the net area figure is specified.
Table 5.4 Occupant Load Factor
Use ft2 ? (per person) m2? (per person)
Assembly Use
Concentrated use, without fixed seating 7 net 0.65 net
Less concentrated use, without fixed seating 15 net 1.4 net
Bench-type seating 1 person/18 linear in. 1 person/45.7 linear cm
Fixed seating Number of fixed seats Number of fixed seats
Waiting spaces See 12.1.7.2 and 13.1.7.2. See 12.1.7.2 and 13.1.7.2.
Kitchens 100 9.3
Library stack areas 100 9.3
Library reading rooms 50 net 4.6 net
Swimming pools 50 ? of water surface 4.6 ? of water surface
Swimming pool decks 30 2.8
Exercise rooms with equipment 50 4.6
Exercise rooms without equipment 15 1.4
Stages 15 net 1.4 net
Lighting and access catwalks, galleries, gridirons 100 net 9.3 net
Casinos and similar gaming areas 11 1
Skating rinks 50 4.6
Educational Use
Classrooms 20 net 1.9 net
Shops, laboratories, vocational rooms 50 net 4.6 net
Day-Care Use 35 net 3.3 net
Health Care Use
Inpatient treatment departments 240 22.3
Sleeping departments 120 11.1
Detention and Correctional Use 120 11.1
Residential Use
Hotels and dormitories 200 18.6
Apartment buildings 200 18.6
Board and care, large 200 18.6
Industrial Use
General and high hazard industrial 100 9.3
Special purpose industrial NA? NA?
Business Use 100 9.3
Storage Use (other than mercantile storerooms) NA? NA?
Mercantile Use
Sales area on street floor?? 30 2.8
Sales area on two or more street floors? 40 3.7
Sales area on floor below street floor? 30 2.8
Sales area on floors above street floor? 60 5.6
Floors or portions of floors used only for offices See business use. See business use.
Floors or portions of floors used only for storage, receiving, and shipping, and not open to general public 300 27.9
Covered mall buildings Per factors applicable to use of space# Per factors applicable to use of space#
?All factors expressed in gross area unless marked ?net.?
?Not applicable. The occupant load shall be not less than the maximum probable number of occupants present at any time.
?For the purpose of determining occupant load in mercantile occupancies where, due to differences in grade of streets on different sides, two or more floors directly accessible from streets (not including alleys or similar back streets) exist, each such floor shall be considered a street floor. The occupant load factor shall be one person for each 40 ft2 (3.7 m2) of gross floor area of sales space.
?In mercantile occupancies with no street floor, as defined in 3.3.196, but with access directly from the street by stairs or escalators, the principal floor at the point of entrance to the mercantile occupancy shall be considered the street floor.
#The portions of the covered mall, where considered a pedestrian way and not used as gross leasable area, shall not be assessed an occupant load based on Table 7.3.1.2. However, means of egress from a covered mall pedestrian way shall be provided for an occupant load determined by dividing the gross leasable area of the covered mall building (not including anchor stores) by the appropriate lowest whole number occupant load factor from Figure 7.3.1.2.
Each individual tenant space shall have means of egress to the outside or to the covered mall based on occupant loads figured by using the appropriate occupant load factor from Table 7.3.1.2.
Each individual anchor store shall have means of egress independent of the covered mall.
Source: Table 7.3.1.2 of NFPA 101, Life Safety Code.
518.2 General Classifications.
 

ryan_618

Senior Member
Justin, the data I use is Chapter 3 of the International Building Code, a document that is adopted in over 40 states (I beleive). It classifies use and occupancy. Assembly occupancies are places where people assemble together for the purposes of gathering and basically hanging out together.

Theatres
Banquet halls
Night clubs
Resteraunts
Taverns/bars
Arcades
Auditoriums
Bowling alleys
Churches
Courtrooms
Dance halls
Skating rinks
Bleachers
Grandstands
Stadiums
etc.


Mercantile is somewhere you go to shop, such as a store. You don't have the same risk of many people crammed together, with obstructions such as fixed seating, or tables and chairs.
 

JJWalecka

Senior Member
Location
New England
Thank you to everyone for making the time to respond to my question.

Iwire,

Thanks for the quote from the Handbook and Life Safety Code. It was worth alot.


Justin J. Walecka
 

lfegan

New member
Occupancy Load Factor Study

Occupancy Load Factor Study

Just on a related subject folks, i am undertaking an occupancy load study in conjunction with a large uk retail chain, as part of my lit review i am trying to get an electronic copy of a similar report by a hamish maclennan specifically AP11,

Has anybody ever heard of this work or could one suggest where i might find it,

Thank you for your help

Regards

Luke Fegan

BA BAI Dip ICM Pdip FSP Msc Fire Eng MIEI
 

tallgirl

Senior Member
Location
Great White North
Occupation
Controls Systems firmware engineer
ryan_618 said:
By the way, you realize that the 2008 deadline was in November, right? You would have to propose this for the 2011.

You're a moderator. When are y'all going to open a section for 2011 proposals? I've got one that's waiting on Intellectual Property Law to tell me I can blab about. And as soon as they do I plan to blab about it a LOT.
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
tallgirl said:
When are y'all going to open a section for 2011 proposals?
Since the 2008 code cycle is still underway, perhaps you'd care to share some comments on proposals submitted for the 2008 for discussion?

Since there is no 2008 NEC as yet, it would be a bit premature to start in on the proposals for it, wouldn't it? :)

Edit: Feel free to throw comments onto this thread if you feel like it - I was considering doing the same.
 
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