550.15H under chassis wiring wet location

[augie47]

Food for thought: Our State manufactured Home Division is of the opinion that once you alter the wiring if a HUD mobile home it is no longer considered a mobile home and the standards for a regular residence apply...
Ignoring that opinion for the moment, take a look at 550.15(H). It has some interesting requirements for under chassis wiring.

(Electrical Contractor Rule #3: Avoid any electrical associated with Swimming Pools, Mobile Homes and Solar Installs)

 

[jxofaltrds]

I'm gonna run a 220 circuit for a dryer ... In a mobile home.... I know stuff is different in when wiring them up but ... I didn't see much difference... Did I miss something?? I wanna make sure this stuff is right ...

What is different? (This scares me)

Not speaking for other states.

First it is a Manufactured Home (PC and correct).

Adding is not altering the 'unit'.

The Fed set the rules for 'setting' a unit as approved.

Your area may or may not inspect additions to the Home.

 

[rt66electric]

Where is the rest of this rulebook????

Where is the rest of this rulebook????

(Electrical Contractor Rule #3: Avoid any electrical associated with Swimming Pools, Mobile Homes and Solar Installs) [/QUOTE]

Where is the rest of this rulebook????

 

[augie47]

(Electrical Contractor Rule #3: Avoid any electrical associated with Swimming Pools, Mobile Homes and Solar Installs)

Where is the rest of this rulebook????[/QUOTE]

Rule 1: Run whenever you hear "it doesn't matter what it cost" because the translation is "I'm don't care about costs as I am not going to pay you in the end"

Rule 2: Be leery when taking over a job where another electrician left. You may learn the hard way why he "left".

 

[readydave8]

Where is the rest of this rulebook????

Rule 1: Run whenever you hear "it doesn't matter what it cost" because the translation is "I'm don't care about costs as I am not going to pay you in the end"

Rule 2: Be leery when taking over a job where another electrician left. You may learn the hard way why he "left".[/QUOTE]Rule 3: Don't give discount to customer based on him saying that he will have a lot of future work for you.

 

[kwired]

Rule 1: Run whenever you hear "it doesn't matter what it cost" because the translation is "I'm don't care about costs as I am not going to pay you in the end"

Rule 2: Be leery when taking over a job where another electrician left. You may learn the hard way why he "left".

Rule 3: Don't give discount to customer based on him saying that he will have a lot of future work for you.[/QUOTE]

Gus already posted rule 3, so your rule 3 is really rule 4:happyyes:

 

[augie47]

Back to your original question. I have found the allowances for wiring additions to manufactured homes vary. In these area the majority are never inspected at the time of the installation. Most inspectors I have met will not allow NM under the chassis.

 

[MasterTheNEC]

I'm gonna run a 220 circuit for a dryer ... In a mobile home.... I know stuff is different in when wiring them up but ... I didn't see much difference... Did I miss something?? I wanna make sure this stuff is right ...

@Copperthief

Well based on your username I am trying to be nonjudgemental and assume it's a poke at humor. Being a member of the Copper Development Association I would surly not like the notion. However, i did not take your question as being anything other than.."Hey I am running a new branch circuit for my dryer" so I will take it at that.

When we talk about such branch circuits we really use nomenclature of 120/240 volts so just wanted to establish that. As for hooking up a dryer, it would be the same 30A application in a mobile home much as it would be in a traditional dwelling. The electrons really have no clue where they are used, just that they are cared for properly.

Assuming that you have determined that your "mobile home" or "manufactured home" ( as only you know based on what you are looking at) service can accept the additional load being placed on it (5000 VA or nameplate, the greater of which) , and I will assume you have. With that said your would install a 30A (10 AWG) four conductor wiring method and follow the guidance of 250.140 (assuming again you have a NEC, and I am doing a lot of assuming here today).

As for NM-B under a mobile home (or manufactured home), if you consider it "exposed to weather" (not skirted in) then read 550.15(H) for more details.

 

[willg]

not exposed to weather

not exposed to weather

Sorry to revive an old thread... I'm going roynds with inspectors here in WA on 550.15h. We disagree on what exposed to weather means. They claim that these double wides, that are pitted, axles removed, and tied down need to be run in conduit because they may be transported later and exposed to weather. Well I've seen plenty of stick built houses transported too... It doesnt say that in the code.

 

[willg]

550.15H under chassis wiring wet location

Where outdoor or under-chassis line-voltage (120 volts nominal, or higher) wiring is exposed to moisture*or physical damage, it shall be protected by a*conduit or*raceway*approved*listed*for use in wet locations*or where subject to physical damage.

My question is, if the manufactured home is axles removed, pitted, tied down, with a permanent foundation, how is it exposed to moisture or physical damage? I see no difference between this location and a stick built crawlspace. Now before you say it can be towed down the road, so can a stick built home. The code says exposed to moisture, it doesnt say possibly in the future exposed to moisture. Also be definition article 100 this would still be a dry location, as a dry location can be temporarily exposed to moisture. Am i wrong on challenging the inspector for requiring me to run conduit?

 

[GoldDigger]

Section 550 covers "buildings" constructed in a certain way under certain rules whether they are on a permanent foundation or not and whether they still have their axles attached or not.
Some of the particular provisions in 550 may seem not to be justified under some particular conditions, such as the ones you propose.
But that does not allow you or the AHJ to disregard any of the provisions in 550. The section has to be taken as a whole for the wiring system to comply. Provisions or special freedoms created in one part go with restrictions in other parts.

But in the end it comes down to "because the Code says so."

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Sorry to revive an old thread... I'm going roynds with inspectors here in WA on 550.15h. We disagree on what exposed to weather means. They claim that these double wides, that are pitted, axles removed, and tied down need to be run in conduit because they may be transported later and exposed to weather. Well I've seen plenty of stick built houses transported too... It doesnt say that in the code.

IMO, if the trailer does not have any underpinning then it is exposed to moisture and I would agree with the inspector. BTW, you can never win an argument when the term physical damage is used. That is subjective and if the authority having jurisdiction thinks its subject to damage then there is not much you can do.

(H) Under-Chassis Wiring (Exposed to Weather). Where
outdoor or under-chassis line-voltage (120 volts, nominal,
or higher) wiring is exposed to moisture or physical damage,
it shall be protected by a conduit or raceway approved
for use in wet locations or where subject to physical damage.
The conductors shall be listed for use in wet locations.

 

[Smart $]

... Am i wrong on challenging the inspector for requiring me to run conduit?

No. But first and foremost, base your challenge on the title, "(H) Under-Chassis Wiring (Exposed to Weather)." Under-chassis wiring of a manufactured home sitting on a permanent foundation is not exposed to weather. Exposed to moisture or physical damage is secondary to qualifying by section title.

 

[david]

I'm gonna run a 220 circuit for a dryer ... In a mobile home.... I know stuff is different in when wiring them up but ... I didn't see much difference... Did I miss something?? I wanna make sure this stuff is right ...

What wiring method where you intending to use for your branch circuit?

With the recent (relatively) changes to the NEC requirements regarding bonding the neutral for clothes dryers and ranges, the statement that mobile homes are different may not be that true these days.

However I still find a lot of wiring from ("sub-pane"l) distribution where there doesn't seem to be a clear understanding of the 4-wire supply.

 

[kwired]

What wiring method where you intending to use for your branch circuit?

With the recent (relatively) changes to the NEC requirements regarding bonding the neutral for clothes dryers and ranges, the statement that mobile homes are different may not be that true these days.

However I still find a lot of wiring from ("sub-pane"l) distribution where there doesn't seem to be a clear understanding of the 4-wire supply.

I could be wrong but I believe ranges and dryers in even some of the oldest mobile homes were always required to be 4 wire circuits.

Only three wire circuits I have ever seen in such applications appeared to be field added and were likely not code compliant.

 

[david]

550.15 Wiring Methods and Materials.
(B) Nonmetallic Cable Protection. Nonmetallic cable located 380 mm (15 in.) or less above the floor, if exposed, shall be protected from physical damage by covering boards, guard strips, or raceways. Cable likely to be damaged by stowage shall be so protected in all cases.

(H) Under-Chassis Wiring (Exposed to Weather). Where outdoor or under-chassis line-voltage (120 volts, nominal, or higher) wiring is exposed to moisture or physical damage, it shall be protected by rigid metal conduit or intermediate metal conduit. The conductors shall be suitable for wet locations.

“Nonmetallic Cable Protection” Cable likely to be damaged by stowage shall be so protected in all cases.

“My good friend who passed away few years back now used to say, I never seen a mobile home yet that they do not through everything they can fit under one of these things”

They are all used for storage at least that has been my experience in 25 years at looking at manufactured homes. Even if you think that exposed to moisture is not an issue. Exposure to physical damage is certainly a concern. My feeling with the conductive metal structure that damage cable is likely to energize extra scrutiny of physical damage to cable is warranted .

 

[willg]

I agree about physical damage

I agree about physical damage

But its still like a crawlspace, or attic, if its under the framing you need running boards. I ran it nice and neat tucked in the top side of the bottom L of the beam, secured with cable ties.

 

[jumper]

Isn't the whole state of Washington considered a wet location?

 

[jap]

But its still like a crawlspace, or attic, if its under the framing you need running boards. I ran it nice and neat tucked in the top side of the bottom L of the beam, secured with cable ties.

It probably has more to do with where it comes up out of the ground rather than where you ran it tucked into the channel.
What protection does it have where it comes up out of the ground?

JAP>

 

[willg]

it originates in the pannel of the mobile

it originates in the pannel of the mobile

I fished it up to the panel, ran it out to my disco where i sleaved it in pvc. Its for a mini split ac unit.