6/3 nm cable for stove

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infinity said:
Take a look at 334.80.
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So I did review these codes thanks.

However I came across an older mike holt code forum regarding nm cable conductor and breaker sizing for stoves as poster below.

My confusion is that I thought the table 220.55 demand factors for household ranges stoves, etc was for a reduced demand ampere to be applied to the total feeder or service size/ampacity, while the stove would be wired such as to the stoves nameplate current rating.

But I guess not? Does them the stove get sized to the tables demand rating per table?
 

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I am confused. If you have an average sized house and the panel in a normal location (basement, garage, side of the house), just use 6/3 and put it on a 50A breaker. That will cover even the beefiest induction cook-tops I have seen lately. End of story.
 
Jpflex said:
My confusion is that I thought the table 220.55 demand factors for household ranges stoves,
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220.55 has nothing to do with branch circuits or OCP, it is in Part III of 220 which is "Feeder and Service Load Calculations"
 
tthh said:
I am confused. If you have an average sized house and the panel in a normal location (basement, garage, side of the house), just use 6/3 and put it on a 50A breaker. That will cover even the beefiest induction cook-tops I have seen lately. End of story.
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Yea I agree. It’s just all the conductor ampacity derating and adjustments rules that used to be confusing.

The other issue is the job telling me to just wire up this kitchen without mentioning counters or the size of stove they intend on buying.

I did confront them on the challenge of me sizing a stove cable before I know it’s watts/ KVA.

If I go large 6/3 and the stove is small watts then a larger 50 i breaker and 6/3 will be a violation and won’t protect the stove, fire hazard snd will violate code

If I go smalller cable and they get a larger stove, the conductor and breaker may fail to operate their choice of stove

It seems I’ll be going larger cable and if too large for the stove they choose well put on a smaller breaker on this larger cable but will have to research and find those cable end reducing adapters for the smaller breaker lugs

The company always does things like this such as asking us to wire up a building for such fixed appliances of all sorts before giving us its nameplate specs
 
roger said:
220.55 has nothing to do with branch circuits or OCP, it is in Part III of 220 which is "Feeder and Service Load Calculations"
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Exactly, so that’s what I was saying. The load of the stove gets added to the feeder/service.

However, do I size wire for stove based on lower VA stove demand based on table or base cable size on actual stove nameplate ampere?
 
Jpflex said:
So I did review these codes thanks.

However I came across an older mike holt code forum regarding nm cable conductor and breaker sizing for stoves as poster below.

My confusion is that I thought the table 220.55 demand factors for household ranges stoves, etc was for a reduced demand ampere to be applied to the total feeder or service size/ampacity, while the stove would be wired such as to the stoves nameplate current rating.

But I guess not? Does them the stove get sized to the tables demand rating per table?
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yes
 
This code section {220.55} has always been horrible. Looks like the 2023 has finally addressed this with changes to the title of the table and additional notes. I'm curious as to what the PI for this change said. This may end the confusion.

4. Calculating the branch-circuit load for one range in accordance with Table 220.55 shall be permitted.
5. The branch-circuit load for one wall-mounted oven or one counter-mounted cooking unit shall be the nameplate rating of the appliance.
Click to expand...
 
roger said:
220.55 has nothing to do with branch circuits or OCP, it is in Part III of 220 which is "Feeder and Service Load Calculations"
Click to expand...
But 220.14(B) (moved to 220.13(C) in the 2023 NEC) is in Part II "Branch Circuit Load Calculations," and it refers you to 220.55.

Cheers, Wayne
 
Jpflex said:
If I go large 6/3 and the stove is small watts then a larger 50 i breaker and 6/3 will be a violation and won’t protect the stove, fire hazard snd will violate code
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If for some reason the stove terminals don't accept #6 conductors, then you'd have to splice down to a smaller size. But for an electric range, pretty sure that's not going to happen.

If the stove manual or spec sheet specifies "maximum 40A OCPD," then you'll have to downsize the OCPD to 40A. Beyond that, it's not the job of the branch circuit breaker to protect the stove.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
If for some reason the stove terminals don't accept #6 conductors, then you'd have to splice down to a smaller size. But for an electric range, pretty sure that's not going to happen.

If the stove manual or spec sheet specifies "maximum 40A OCPD," then you'll have to downsize the OCPD to 40A. Beyond that, it's not the job of the branch circuit breaker to protect the stove.

Cheers, Wayne
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I would have to disagree with you regarding the branch circuit OCPD not having the job of protecting the stove, especially during a short within the stove. Downsizing the breaker on a larger 6/3 cable and not being able to fit the conductors on the smaller OCPD was more of my concern but not connection to stove so much.

But do we size wire to demand on table or nameplate amperes?
 
infinity said:
This code section {220.55} has always been horrible. Looks like the 2023 has finally addressed this with changes to the title of the table and additional notes. I'm curious as to what the PI for this change said. This may end the confusion.
Click to expand...
Ok that’s what I thought thanks

It was misleading after reviewing an older post here on mikes forums, which stated stove circuit are to be sized to load demand table
 

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infinity said:
This code section {220.55} has always been horrible. Looks like the 2023 has finally addressed this with changes to the title of the table and additional notes. I'm curious as to what the PI for this change said. This may end the confusion.
Click to expand...
 
Wait, these statements contradict. Is one counter mounted cooking unit to be sized to nameplate or demand load from table. The code says both, this is stupid
 
Jpflex said:
Wait, these statements contradict. Is one counter mounted cooking unit to be sized to nameplate or demand load from table. The code says both, this is stupid
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I was referring to this:

4. Calculating the branch-circuit load for one range in accordance with Table 220.55 shall be permitted.
5. The branch-circuit load for one wall-mounted oven or one counter-mounted cooking unit shall be the nameplate rating of the appliance.
 
infinity said:
Also the title to that table says branch circuits.
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The title of article 220 is "Branch-Circuit, Feeder, and Service Calculations" but Part III is narrowed down to "Feeder and Service Load Calculations"
 
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