6 disconnects on building, need another

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Transportation Guy

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Williamsburg,VA
Good morning. We have a shopping center where the service drop is tapped in a trough and feeds 6 meters and disconnects for 6 spaces. The owner is dividing 1 of these spaces into 2 so we now have the need for another disconnect. This would make 7. However, there is no room for the 7th. My thought is to come out of the trough with a tap, go approximately 70' on the exterior into another fused disconnect and then go inside to the new space. Thoughts?
 
electricalist said:
Would that be 1 disconnect too many as well as grouping?


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I tend to agree, but the rule is actually 6 disconnects per service. I'm never sure what constitutes a single service, and what is considered multiple services.

Of course, there is also a limit to 1 service per building unless one of the exceptions applies. But with a shopping center, each store might be considered a separate building.

So in summary, I have no idea. :)
 
Section 230.40 states that if you exceed 6, they should be clearly described using suitable graphics or text or both. I read this to say you are allowed to exceed 6. I am going to reach out to AHJ for his opinion as well.
 
Each set of service entrance conductors is permitted to have up to six disconnects. Each meter has its own set of service entrance conductors. The only issue is you cannot have more than six disconnects grouped together in a single location.
 
AHJ cleared the mud. Where i was reading it was allowed as long as they are "marked" isnt the way I read it. You are only allowed 6 per service as we all know. When you have more than 1 service of coarse there will be more (possibly) than 6 and they have to be marked. City of Raleigh allows more than 1 service on a space as long as they are more than 50' apart.

Option 1 - New service 50' away from the other

Option B - Install main service disconnect before the trough and install all the disconnects you want.


Man this is fun!
 
Transportation Guy said:
AHJ cleared the mud. Where i was reading it was allowed as long as they are "marked" isnt the way I read it. You are only allowed 6 per service as we all know. When you have more than 1 service of coarse there will be more (possibly) than 6 and they have to be marked. City of Raleigh allows more than 1 service on a space as long as they are more than 50' apart.

Option 1 - New service 50' away from the other

Option B - Install main service disconnect before the trough and install all the disconnects you want.


Man this is fun!
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Here is the way I see your options

1. your "option 1" assuming city and POCO allow this (2nd service may be allowed be NEC too, if these are considered multiple buildings).
2. your "option 2"
3. utilize 230.40 exception #1 (up to 6 disconnects are allowed for each set of service entrance conductors. IF you have multiple occupancies, each one could be fed by a set of service entrance conductors)
4. sub meter (note this is technically not allowed in some states).
 
steve66 said:
I tend to agree, but the rule is actually 6 disconnects per service. I'm never sure what constitutes a single service, and what is considered multiple services.

Of course, there is also a limit to 1 service per building unless one of the exceptions applies. But with a shopping center, each store might be considered a separate building.

So in summary, I have no idea. :)
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I have seen apartment buildings with a lot more than 6 meters fed from a single gutter. I think the six handle rule applies behind the meter but not in front of it.
 
FWIW, every service entrance conductor tap creates a new service entrance conductor. Tap a service entrance conductor twice and you have three service entrance conductors. As noted by Don earlier, the up-to-six-disconnects rule applies to each service entrance conductor... not each service.
 
230.2 Number of Services.
A building or other structure served shall be supplied by only one service unless permitted in 230.2(A) through (D). For the purpose of 230.40, Exception No. 2 only, underground sets of conductors, 1/0 AWG and larger, running to the same location and connected together at their supply end but not connected together at their load end shall be considered to be supplying one service.
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230.2(B) may allow multiple services on multiple occupancy buildings.

230.40 Number of Service-Entrance Conductor Sets.
Each service drop, set of overhead service conductors, set of underground service conductors, or service lateral shall supply only one set of service-entrance conductors.
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Read exceptions carefully. You could probably have seven occupancies with a service to each, but problem right now is you have one service for six occupancies at one location. Any simple solution probably needs to be worked out with AHJ. Otherwise you are probably looking at either installing a common main (or some combination of one to six anyway)or splitting it up into seven services - each occupancy having it's own service at the occupancy location instead of at a common location.
 
kwired said:
230.2(B) may allow multiple services on multiple occupancy buildings.

Read exceptions carefully. You could probably have seven occupancies with a service to each, but problem right now is you have one service for six occupancies at one location. Any simple solution probably needs to be worked out with AHJ. Otherwise you are probably looking at either installing a common main (or some combination of one to six anyway)or splitting it up into seven services - each occupancy having it's own service at the occupancy location instead of at a common location.
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As long as each occupancy has its own meter, each occupancy will have its own set of service entrance conductors and each set of service entrance conductors it permitted to have up to six disconnects.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
As long as each occupancy has its own meter, each occupancy will have its own set of service entrance conductors and each set of service entrance conductors it permitted to have up to six disconnects.
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Now read 230.40.

One service drop or lateral can not feed seven sets of service entrance conductors, as a general rule.

A meter doesn't determine what is service conductors, in fact if there were one main disconnect and a bank of 30 meters, none of those meters would be connected to service conductors. POCO may call each one a service for billing purposes, but is not a service to the NEC.
 
kwired said:
Now read 230.40.

One service drop or lateral can not feed seven sets of service entrance conductors, as a general rule.
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The OP seems to have an installation that does not have to follow that general rule.

230.71 Maximum Number of Disconnects.
(A) General. The service disconnecting means for each service
permitted by 230.2, or for each set of service-entrance
conductors permitted by 230.40, Exception No. 1, 3, 4, or 5,
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230.40 Exception No. 1: A building with more than one occupancy
shall be permitted to have one set of service entrance
conductors for each service, as defined in 230.2,
run to each occupancy or group of occupancies. If the
number of service disconnect locations for any given classification
of service does not exceed six, the requirements of
230.2(E) shall apply at each location. If the number of
service disconnect locations exceeds six for any given supply
classification, all service disconnect locations for all
supply characteristics, together with any branch circuit or
feeder supply sources, if applicable, shall be clearly described
using suitable graphics or text, or both, on one or
more plaques located in an approved, readily accessible
location(s) on the building or structure served and as near
as practicable to the point(s) of attachment or entry(ies) for
each service drop or service lateral, and for each set of
overhead or underground service conductors.
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Transportation Guy said:
Good morning. We have a shopping center where the service drop is tapped in a trough and feeds 6 meters and disconnects for 6 spaces. The owner is dividing 1 of these spaces into 2 so we now have the need for another disconnect. This would make 7. However, there is no room for the 7th. My thought is to come out of the trough with a tap, go approximately 70' on the exterior into another fused disconnect and then go inside to the new space. Thoughts?
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1 - Several defined circumstance have to be made.
2 - Overhead or underground service conductors?
3 - Where is the service point? Generally defined by POCO ownership
4 - Since you have a group of 6 separate enclosures - what would define the distance needed to start another 6 set of disconnects that would not be grouped with the existing structure disconnect?

I think #4 is the real basis for conversation, the handbook has an illustration exhibit 230.10 that show the service conductors being tapped in a vault to service entrance conductors feeding a single structure at 4 locations. What I believe the OP is asking is the same except the tap is a gutter mounted on the structure. It cannot be determined if the 2 single enclosures on the same wall have mains making it just 2 switches or that they consider the distance between the single enclosures as separate not grouped 6 switch enclosures. For argument case exhibit 230.6 is how I generally think of separate services to a building. I notice they note the service point but again it can be a tap box or a Main OCPD.
 
kwired said:
...
230.40 Number of Service-Entrance Conductor Sets.
Each service drop, set of overhead service conductors, set of underground service conductors, or service lateral shall supply only one set of service-entrance conductors.
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...
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But there is no rule that says you can't tap that one service entrance conductor set to create more service entrance conductor sets.
 
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