600 KCM THHN

[petersonra]

I about fell out of my chair when I got the price back on some 600 THHN. Almost $12 a foot - the stuff is like gold these days. I know it is mostly set by the price of copper, and is pretty much fixed to that, but do any of you guys know any place that is consistently less expensive? maybe some online seller? Even 5% on a larger order is a good chunk of change.

Even 350 was almost $7 a foot.

I can see why AL wire has become so popular.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have refuse to use aluminum thru most of my career however in the past few years I have used it often. I have probably used it more often in the last few years then I have my entire career

 

[petersonra]

I have refuse to use aluminum thru most of my career however in the past few years I have used it often. I have probably used it more often in the last few years then I have my entire career

UL does not allow its use in a UL508a panel though.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

UL does not allow its use in a UL508a panel though.

What is a UL508a panel? Do you know why?

 

[petersonra]

What is a UL508a panel? Do you know why?

UL508a is a listed industrial control panel. I don't know why they don't allow AL conductors.

29 Internal Wiring
29.1 General
29.1.1 All internal wiring conductors or bus bars shall be made of copper.

Field wiring can be either Cu or AL though.

 

[petersonra]

I occurs to me that maybe Ul would give us dispensation to use AL conductors in larger sizes if we asked (and paid, of course). So I called and asked. They were remarkably receptive to the idea, although they did not say yes or no.

 

[Hv&Lv]

I about fell out of my chair when I got the price back on some 600 THHN. Almost $12 a foot - the stuff is like gold these days. I know it is mostly set by the price of copper, and is pretty much fixed to that, but do any of you guys know any place that is consistently less expensive? maybe some online seller? Even 5% on a larger order is a good chunk of change.

Even 350 was almost $7 a foot.

I can see why AL wire has become so popular.

I was looking into digging in some UG to a MDP. 600MCM, conduit, ditch and labor. Wire was $200 per foot alone (4 runs 600 Quad). Customer appeared to have a heart attack when he heard the final per foot price...

 

[Fulthrotl]

I about fell out of my chair when I got the price back on some 600 THHN. Almost $12 a foot - the stuff is like gold these days. I know it is mostly set by the price of copper, and is pretty much fixed to that, but do any of you guys know any place that is consistently less expensive? maybe some online seller? Even 5% on a larger order is a good chunk of change.

Even 350 was almost $7 a foot.

I can see why AL wire has become so popular.

it also gets weird above 500 MCM....
what usually drives it is copper weight, but infrequently used
sizes cost more, and above 500 is infrequently used.

i'm not fond of aluminum wire, unless the terminations are
hypressed. set screw lugs loosen up, unless retorgued
periodically, and people don't do that... but... you can't
compete against aluminum wire on price, so, a hypress
was in order. burndy also sells finger lugs, so you can
put a hypressed lug on a aluminum wire landing under a
setscrew breaker... i expect to see those specified more
and more.

last two jobs i quoted specified hypress on any conductors
larger than #8, unless landing on a breaker... one specification
required dies leaving witness marks on the compression bands,
so dieless wasn't acceptable.

 

[masterinbama]

one specification
required dies leaving witness marks on the compression bands,
so dieless wasn't acceptable.

That's one I have argued before. I have a T&B mechanical crimper that leaves the witness marks that will not do as good a job as a properly operating VC-6 hydraulic.

Engineer agreed and let us do the go-nogo test slugs in his presence daily.

 

[kwired]

UL does not allow its use in a UL508a panel though.

If a long enough run to make it worthwhile make a transtion from aluminum to copper before entering the UL508a panel. If large enough and long enough conductors it can still be significantly less to use aluminum.

 

[kwired]

- the stuff is like gold these days.

You probably don't want to know the price of gold then

 

[petersonra]

If a long enough run to make it worthwhile make a transtion from aluminum to copper before entering the UL508a panel. If large enough and long enough conductors it can still be significantly less to use aluminum.

the field wires are allowed to be AL, just the wires contained entirely inside the ICP cannot be AL.

 

[kwired]

the field wires are allowed to be AL, just the wires contained entirely inside the ICP cannot be AL.

Or you could say it that way.

 

[cdslotz]

Most HVAC units require copper only terminations.

So run aluminum to a J-box below the unit, convert to copper in LT flex to unit.
Do the same with the panel.

 

[G0049]

You Sound Like My Plumber

You Sound Like My Plumber

I was looking into digging in some UG to a MDP. 600MCM, conduit, ditch and labor. Wire was $200 per foot alone (4 runs 600 Quad). Customer appeared to have a heart attack when he heard the final per foot price...

I had a new water line run to my house on Monday. The contractor said I had some options for the run from my curb valve into my basement, but the city requires 1" copper from the water main accross the street to the curb valve on my side. When he bought the supplies for my job last week, his price on the 1" CU was $6 a foot.

Shocking...:happysad:

 

[kwired]

I had a new water line run to my house on Monday. The contractor said I had some options for the run from my curb valve into my basement, but the city requires 1" copper from the water main accross the street to the curb valve on my side. When he bought the supplies for my job last week, his price on the 1" CU was $6 a foot.

Shocking...:happysad:

Bet there was no good reason to specify copper either. Water main unless has some age is probably PVC or will be replaced with PVC some day:happyno:

 

[petersonra]

Bet there was no good reason to specify copper either. Water main unless has some age is probably PVC or will be replaced with PVC some day:happyno:

They just redid the street out in front of my house last year. They put in a new water main as part of the work. It looked like some kind of dark brown or black fiberglass to me.

They also moved the power lines from the poles that used to run down the middle of the street and put them underground. They used PVC for that.

 

[Cow]

We just did two runs of 350mcm XHHW CU about 900' long or so. One supply house was $9K less than the others!!!! I think their price was around 30K. And of all things, it was a plumbing supply house, that only carries some electrical parts.

Amazing what some customers will spend just to run two 100HP motors that far away.....

 

[kwired]

We just did two runs of 350mcm XHHW CU about 900' long or so. One supply house was $9K less than the others!!!! I think their price was around 30K. And of all things, it was a plumbing supply house, that only carries some electrical parts.

Amazing what some customers will spend just to run two 100HP motors that far away.....

Here in the center pivot irrigation capitol of the world, 900 ft is a short run. I have never seen anyone run copper to one either though. I paralleled 4/0 aluminum to a 100Hp well last spring about 1900 foot run. Still a small fortune even with aluminum, must be worth it to the producers though as they for several years now have been abandoning diesel power units for electric motors to pump their water like diesel units have some deadly disease, but it is good for electricians, not as good for diesel mechanics and fuel suppliers.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Here in the center pivot irrigation capitol of the world, 900 ft is a short run. I have never seen anyone run copper to one either though. I paralleled 4/0 aluminum to a 100Hp well last spring about 1900 foot run. Still a small fortune even with aluminum, must be worth it to the producers though as they for several years now have been abandoning diesel power units for electric motors to pump their water like diesel units have some deadly disease, but it is good for electricians, not as good for diesel mechanics and fuel suppliers.

how much is red tank a gallon there?

i bought #2 diesel here today at $3.99, and that is the lowest for 25 miles.
a 100 hp diesel engine uses fuel at a pretty good clip.

Diesel fuel 0.048 gal/hr per horsepower.

at $3.50 a gallon, it's $16.80 an hour.
figuring $3.00 for fuel, and .50 per hour
for maintenance and fueling.